This page contains all the messages put onto the BSN Stereo Chat Board during February, 2000. They are in chronological order from first to last. To search for specific topics, use the "find" utility on your browser. For a search of the complete archives, please go to the Stereo Chat Board Archives Main Page.
|
Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-02-01 02:17:22 Comments: Beetlefan, you can respect Rhino all you want, but the label does not always include the single versions, mono or otherwise. The following is a partial list of just some of the big blunders Rhino has made: Four Seasons, none of the Four Seasons Rhino product contains the hit single versions of "Little Boy In Grown Up Clothes" or "Ain't That a Shame"; Wilson Pickett, no single version of the 1967 hit "I Found A Love"; Dionne Warwick, no version at all of the Top 16 hit single "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling"; Shirelles, no version at all of the Top 22 "Welcome Home Baby", and the mono single version of "Baby It's You"; Ray Stevens, no mono or stereo versions of the hit single edits of "Ahab The Arab" and "Santa Claus Is Watching You"; and on and on and on. More than the mono vs stereo thing, my biggest complaint with Rhino is that they do not always include all of the hits, or correct versions. I would gladly accept the mono versions, if that's all I could get, and they are the single versions. I can't remember the last time I bought a Rhino cd, for those reasons. And Rhino doesn't seem to care about us the way they used to. Shoot, I used to get phone calls from Bill Inglot, and others at the label. They used to return our phone calls... but no more. Our input is as non-important as it can be. I still like some of Bill Inglot's work, though. He's a really talented man. We just don't seem to agree all that often on the way some tracks should be released. But then Rhino isn't paying me to make such decisions. So, that's that. |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-02-01 02:20:52 Comments: Luke, most of the early stereo mixes were done mostly for the US market. Also, Martin mixed a lot of stereo for the blue LP's but had little or no involvement in the red or blue CD versions. True, he may have sofened his stance a bit in preparing the Past masters CD's. The way I see it, the Anthologies were just for fun, and to satisfy an insatiable thirst for Beatle music. Happily, the original mono masters to all the singles have been commercially released anyway. |
|
Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-02-01 08:50:37 Comments: Beetle, re: The early Beatles stereo mixes were *not* done specifically for the US market - that's a very common misconception. In fact, in several cases, the US was using fake stereo while the UK had the true stereo mix. Having said that, Martin has claimed that the stereo mixes of Please Please Me and With The Beatles were not done by him, and not till after he left EMI in 1965. Both are untrue. The stereo version of Please Please Me came out about a month after the mono - the stereo With The Beatles came out the same day as the mono. As for mixing times, the mono and stereo mixes of the Please Please Me LP were done at the *same session*... As for the Red and Blue CDs, while they were not directly put together by Martin, they did have to get his approval before being released. |
|
Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Madison, WI Time: 2000-02-01 08:50:14 Comments: Beetle, re: The early Beatles stereo mixes were *not* done specifically for the US market - that's a very common misconception. In fact, in several cases, the US was using fake stereo while the UK had the true stereo mix. Having said that, Martin has claimed that the stereo mixes of Please Please Me and With The Beatles were not done by him, and not till after he left EMI in 1965. Both are untrue. The stereo version of Please Please Me came out about a month after the mono - the stereo With The Beatles came out the same day as the mono. As for mixing times, the mono and stereo mixes of the Please Please Me LP were done at the *same session*... As for the Red and Blue CDs, while they were not directly put together by Martin, they did have to get his approval before being released. |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-02-01 12:00:14 Comments: John, Hey, my gripes with Rhino are the same as yours for exactly the kind of reasons you cited here, and I can think of tons of others. What I should have said is that if not for Bill and Co., the spark to get the mono singles out may never have happenned. It does frustrate me that they refuse, even after letters, calls, and e-mails, they refuse to correct the situation. And yes, I used to get personal calls. I respect their RIGHT to do as they wish. We don't have to buy their product. I haven't bought a Rhino CD in months. I was unhappy with the sound of Parts or their "K.C. & The Sunshine Band Anniversary CD". Wilson Pickett's "I Found A Love" was a hit for wicked Pickett's band, The Falcons & Band in 1961 on Lupine (1003) Records. The 1967 "hit" you site is a re-recording. |
|
Name: Steve
Baird From: Used to be from Virginia Time: 2000-02-01 12:01:18 Comments: To Jim in Virginia. That sealed record you found was released in the mid 90's. If you look on the back of the jacket, you will see a bar code, indicating it is a modern release. It has little or no collector value. In fact, most of the Beach Boys' albums were re-released on vinyl -- I have a few of them, but not the one you found. If you didn't have to pay too much for it, and you appreciate the fact that modern vinyl releases are often quieter because of improvements in vinyl formulation, I'd go ahead and open and enjoy it. The label is the black Capitol one with the rainbow of colors around its circumference. Aside from the quieter vinyl, you will find also that meticulous care was given to mastering it results in superior sound (as was the care given to the Beatles vinyl reissues, which blow away just about everything out there that previously existed). Re all the controversy about bootlegging -- sorry I missed being here, I was in Atlanta for the weekend and just got back last nite (Go Rams!). But beetle, they don't throw you in jail for speeding, they just write you a ticket. They will, however, throw you in jail for shoplifting. |
|
Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-02-01 12:36:52 Comments: Although there doesn't seem to be many "Save The RHINO" advocates on this site anymore, I respectfully disagree with John Preston's claim that the label never reissued the Four Seasons' 45 version of "Ain't That a Shame." To my ears, the hit version with Nick Massi's bass-vocal overdubs was issued on Rhino's 1991 CD "Frankie Valli & the Four Seasons: Greatest Hits Vol. 1" (Rhino 70594). It is the MONO mix I remember, although I haven't listened to my original Vee Jay single to make an exact A-B comparison. It definitely isn't the stereo mix, where Massi's vocals are completely missing. And while we're on the subject of the Seasons catalog, can anyone confirm if the stereo separation of "Sherry" on the original Vee Jay pressings differed from the Philips and subsequently reissued version? I recall reading in an old BSN newsletter that Valli's vocal tracks were mixed differently on the Vee Jay pressings. What do you know, vinyl-philes? |
|
Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-02-01 13:20:42 Comments: Beetlefan, while the earlier version of "I Found A Love" charted, the later version made the Top 40. Both have merit, but the remake was a Wilson Pickett solo , and deserved to be included on his greatest hits cd. To add insult to injury, the cd insert called out "I Found A Love-Part 1", which would fool us into thinking that we were getting the 1967 version, when, in fact, it was the Falcon's hit. I spoke to their A & R man, at the time, and he admitted that they made a mistake. But did it get corrected? No! The only Rhino cd that I can recall ever being corrected was the B.J. Thomas Greatest Hits cd (the mono hit version of "Hooked On a Feeling" was substituted for the stereo lp version). |
|
Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-02-01 13:32:25 Comments: Sorry, Marty. That version of "Ain't That a Shame" (on the Greatest Hits Vol 1) is 2:34 seconds long. The single hit version is 2:07. To my knowledge, the hit version has never been reissued on any cd, mono or stereo. The single version may be an edit of the longer one, but it's not the same. Curb is another of those owners who clings to his masters like they were a lifejacket. He needs to get with someone who knows what they are doing and remaster the Four Seasons tracks right. |
|
Name: Dave
Sampson Time: 2000-02-01 15:55:44 Comments: well, I know I'm a little late on discussing those 3 recent boots of Cameo/Parkway material-but having just heard them last night I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents(being from Canada of course that isn't worth all that much). Here we go. First off, since I do have the other C/P releases on Park/CamPark/Bow etc. They sound so much better than these new compilations. Refering to the recent BSN Newsletter and the Cooledit pro. editing software-these recent cds are a good example of how NOT to use that program. Many of the songs have that phasy/tinny effect which results when you try to remove too much hiss/surface noise. There are big hits here that have a fair bit of surface noise all the same-which is not the case on the Campark discs. Many of the songs sound also quite muddy-like alot of the Abkco albums did(and I'm willing to bet those are what were used for sources rather than original C/P LPs). On the few stereo cuts(limbo rock/that old black magic, etc.)-which of course did come from original vinyl, you can hear in the quiet beginnings just how over filtered these cuts are. in fact you can tell the beginning of "linbo rock" was taken from a muddy mono source and edited on to the stereo version. Now, it might sound like I'm being hard on these 3 compilations, truth is, there is enough rare stuff on them to make them worth while, but if you really want clean versions of Chubby Checker, Dovels, Dee Dee Sharp, etc. Go with the Bow/Campark/Park CDs, They certainly sound cleaner and more natural to my ears. They're not perfect, but they're the best there is so far. On the whole ethics issue with bootlegs. I'd rather not stoop to buying them-and I do feel bad about the artists/musicians that are missing out on their due share. But i have no sympathy for the record companies who have been gouging us with inflated CD prices for years. Now They're getting scared with the amount of copying that happens on the internet. They'd better start listening to what the customers really want-or the online underground will put them out of business-or at least hurt them a lot. I am so thankful for companies like Sundazed, Eric, Varese, Ace and other such companies who put painstaking effort into all of their releases. Those are the companies I'm proud to support. I only wish there were more of them. |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-02-01 17:29:32 Comments: Dave, I use Cool Edit, and I can tell you that the artifacts are a result of overdoing the cleaning. I have a setting that really works for most of my purposes. It is NOT Cool Edit's fault! If you use the program you will see what I mean. You can produce that noise with ANY program if you don't use it carefully. ?Steve, you CAN get thrown in jail for speeding in this state. |
|
Name: Dave
Sampson Time: 2000-02-01 18:58:13 Comments: Beatle: Thanks, but I know all about cooledit and how it can be "overused". I do have it and use It - which is why I said what I said. |
|
Name: G.
Cassan From: Mississauga, Ontario Time: 2000-02-01 19:27:21 Comments: If your after the two versions of the Fours Seasons song, "Ain't That A Shame " in best quality, then you need to purchase ACE CD's "Ain't That A Shame / Recorded Live On Stage " for the Mono version (with overdubs) and " Edizione D'Oro" for the Stereo version (no overdubs). |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-02-02 00:59:38 Comments: Dave Sampson, I may have misunderstood what you meant by "good example of how NOT to use that program". I took it to mean that you were saying that is a BAD program. Noise reduction is often one of the most misused tools in these programs, be it Sound Forge, Cool Edit, whatever. I'm also at a disadvantage because I have not read the article in BSN. I'm ashamed to say that I let my suscription lapse. |
|
Name: Mike
Hartman From: Vernon Hills, IL Time: 2000-02-02 11:12:21 Comments: Marty re: can anyone confirm if the stereo separation of "Sherry" on the original Vee Jay pressings differed from the Philips and subsequently reissued version? (Someone on this board or the newsletter said the vocals were double tracked) I found the Vee-Jay stereo LP in a used record store. To my ears it was the exact same mix we hear everywhere. I did not hear any difference. |
|
Name: John
Sellards Website: From: Beckley, WV Time: 2000-02-02 13:24:44 Comments: Regarding Sherry, I am not sure about double tracking or anything, but I have the LP in mono, which I presume has the mono 45 mix on it (this happens more often than people would have you think), and it is subtly different - more reverb, as I recall. |
|
Name: Boppin'
Brian Website: From: So CA. Time: 2000-02-03 05:08:05 Comments: Boy howdy - youse a busy buncha beavers, postin' away reams of stuff while I ain't been payin' too close attention..! (about 250 entries since the first of the year or so !!!) Could it be winter weather / cabin fever (no such luck here - - - sunny, dry, breezy, 84 o F.) that has folks hibernatin' & gyratin' & compyooter-atin' & disseminatin' detailed discourses on discs ?….
Regarding C/P 3 CD "belated" comments just a few notches below, here's a thought - I bet the over -
tweezed / NR-ed sound isn't a factor on the earlier "gray" issues (Bow/Park/Campark, etc.) as the
technology wasn't as widely available just a few years back when those earlier CDs came out. Only
have heard the Bow "Limbo Rock" Chubby CD, out of all of them, & I don't claim to be any great expert,
but it sounded terrific & not too over-tweezed/NR-ed or otherwise edited. In fact an all - Chubby "site"
chose this & another Bow label issue as the very best - sounding of all the dozens of Chubby CDs they
covered. Lotsa stereo, too. Chubby checklist….go to:
A follow - up to the "…..big blunders RHINO has made:…" as posted by John P:…"……..Shirelles, no version at all of the Top 22 "Welcome Home Baby", and the mono single version of "Baby It's You".." Bet you meant they issued mono version (it is on Rhino's "Very Best of…") when it's stereo elsewhere (Ace 356, for one) for the former. As for the latter of the two, could it be that the stereo version (that I prefer & that crops up rarely -- it's on a Laserlight compilation, "Love Songs", #12 320) is one of those pesky "stereo underdubs" ?
Martin T B.'s post on "WHITE CHRISTMAS" caught my attention……..:
Agree with DS assessment that Would have to say that DCC's "metal venture" may prove surprisingly fruitful, as, believe it or leave it, the '80s era "nostalgia" is just about to the point where the folks that grew up with this shtuff are just now into a position financially to add these things at 30 bucks a pop to their shelves next to their "Matrix" and "Twin Peaks" DVDs. Meanwhile, I'll add another "vote" for a Steve Hoffman-ization of the Beatles' "first four" (giving us an alternative I'd bet would surely outsell the Capitol monos which I too have "boycotted" from day one).
Was pleasantly surprised to find out that so many of the "BSNers" were 10 or 15 years younger than one
might assume when the whole "tastes in music" issue arose. Don't know if that whole "you like most
what you heard on your car stereo at 16 or 17" approach works for the majority of us. I know most of my
favorites were laid down years before I ever showed up, as is the case in numerous other respondents
to this informal survey. Interesting to note that 3 of 6 songs cited in one reader's "best year" pick of 1965
were all remakes or covers ! ("You're the One", "Keep On Dancing", :"Over & Over"). VARESE VINTAGE seems to have heard gripe of mine posted here last year about short song selections on most domestic CD reissues - witness recent 25 - track Cadences, Shirelles, etc. Guess it depends on the licensing deal they can swing, as recent "East Side Sound" series had skimpy 16 cuts each, spread over 4 volumes (not 3 - which I discovered only after hauling the first 3 volumes only home from the Rekkid shop, they had a 4th one I had somehow missed plugged on INSIDE notes….)… Well, at least they have the best sound yet for this stuff, and stereo rarities like "Land of 1000 Dances", and others. Still, plenty of "leftovers" that could make for a 5th & even 6th volume…. "Discover A Lover", "Pa - Cha", "Love Special Delivery", "(I Was a) Teenage Brain Surgeon", etc., etc…..
KIT KATS kuts....JAMIE JUNK :
As for you "BOOT boys", send off those friendly free / gift "copies" (or "copies of copies") to me, ASAP.
We can all sleep better knowing that it'll be so unburdening to you folks that have such pangs about
having this stuff in your collections that it makes you feel better to make me "free" copies! Yahoo ! I'll
be waiting to pounce on the mailman when he hauls a crate up to the mailbox fulla CD-Rs of : * * * All of the above must, of course, be in Stereo, please! * * * (And no "C.O.D.'s", either !) ((( - - Thanks in advance !!! - - ))) OK, OK, I'll wrap it up! Bye ! |
|
Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-02-03 09:50:14 Comments: To Boppin' Brian: Does the Jamie/Guyden package contain a true stereo version of Brenda & The Tabulations' "Right On The Tip Of My Tongue"? I've been looking for that for years. |
|
Name: Curt
Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN Time: 2000-02-03 12:26:14 Comments: OK, group....where do I find "Gino Is A Coward" by Gino Washington (Ric-Tic) on disc? There is a 1999-issued CD on Norton which lists the track, but I suspect this might be a recent recording. I believe there was a two-disc Sequel title, too. Any advice appreciated! |
|
Name: Steve Massie Time: 2000-02-03 12:57:41 Comments: The Varese 25 track Shirelles "best of" CD has both the mono and stereo versions of "Baby It's You". |
|
Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-02-03 13:44:24 Comments: Likewise, Varese used a good sounding stereo version of "Welcome Home Baby" on the same Shirelles 25 track package to which Steve Massie made reference. (A recent post inquired about this song too.) Suffice it to say, when you're dealing with an act which may have had 25 or more chart hits, you want to use the biggest hits, especially on the first compilation by the artist. In all fairness to Rhino, this is what they did on their early CD compilations which were generally limited to 18 tracks. Varese, however, has realized that many of these artists are now ripe for "freshened up" packages, so now there's room to go back and find those lower charting hits, more obscure "A" and "B" side singles, or in some cases unreleased tracks(in the case of The Chordettes), and include them on forthcoming releases. When the economics allow, 25 song packages will be issued. |
|
Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-02-03 14:33:02 Comments: Be assured, Curt, that the version of "Gino is a Coward" on Norton's "Gino Washington: Out of this World" CD (CED-268) contains not only the Ric-Tic hit but also an earlier waxing of the song as "I'm a Coward." The latter version is a completely different recording that was issued on the Correc-Tone label. The Norton CD is an outstanding package of Michigan-music memorabilia; made even better by the fact that Washington still owns the master tapes. Needless to say, if you've ever heard his dynamite Wand recording of "Out of this World," you will be floored by how it sounds on this CD. You'll also learn that Telma Hopkins and Joyce Vincent -- later to join up with Tony Orlando as Dawn -- were the background singers on that record. The CD also comes with a 20-page booklet that explores Washington's career in detail, and it is PACKED with vintage pictures, posters and labels of his 45s. Norton really outdid themselves on this release. By the way, all imports CDs by "Geno Washington" contain recordings by a black American serviceman who gained popularity as a soul singer in the U.K. Check out the "e" in his name. He was NO relation to the Detroit Dynamo. |
|
Name: Boppin'
Brian Website: From: Sunny So Cal. Time: 2000-02-03 14:43:36 Comments: "Right on the tip of my tongue" is on several compilations, the two that pop to mind right off the top of my head are the Bear Family + a skimpy Rhino'70s soul set.... not at home right now to check stereo-ness, but I know that there was at least 1 I have that is mono disc dub, another that is clean... again will check this out to-night... 1 of the reasons I got the J/G 2 CD was for their earlier soul smash "Dry Your Eyes", which, as it turned out was mono, if I recall correctly, but cleaner than ever. No word yet on Jamie's domestic B & the Ts CD... Anyone ? |
|
Name: Curt Lundgren Time: 2000-02-03 14:56:55 Comments: Thanks, Marty N....THAT's why I love this site! |
|
Name: S
Baird From: The south Time: 2000-02-03 15:25:51 Comments: To Lex Bloom RE the Jamie/Guyden set on Bear: Right On The Tip Of My Tongue is in the package but its mono. Of the 29 songs in the set that charted in the top 100, 18 are mono, and 11 are stereo. If you want a listing of the songs, let me know and I'll send you one directly. |
|
Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-02-03 16:19:51 Comments: Concerning John Preston's claim that the 45 hit version of "Ain't That a Shame" by the 4 Seasons is a shorter 2:07 track and not the 2:34 version Rhino released on its "Four Seasons Greatest Hits Vol. 1" CD, the answer was in the grooves of my Vee Jay single, oval logo, matrix 63-3155 record. The timing on the label is WRONG. The song is 2:34, even though my "4 Seasons Golden Hits" Vee Jay LP also lists the timing as 2:04. Thank goodness for a stopwatch. I also want to express my gratitude to the BSN contributors who dashed the rumor that the Vee Jay pressings of "Sherry" had a different stereo mix. My lust quickly turned to dust, thanks to you guys. Now I need another rumor squelched or confirmed: Was Frankie Valli's single version of "The Sun Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore" (Smash 1995) a different take or a different recording than the LP track? Will you professors help me again? Thanks. |
|
Name: Groovin'
Garrett Website: Time: 2000-02-03 16:56:46 Comments: Yes, the Norton CD "Out Of This World" by Gino Washington contains the cleanest issues of the songs available, and all are the original recordings. However, they're all mastered from vinyl (although mastered very well). It is a legitimate release, the discs being loaned by Gino himself. I would know, as Gino is a guest every Friday on my morning drive show on WPON radio in Detroit. GW still lives in the area, and makes regular appearances putting on a great show! Norton Records also recently released a great collection of early Cub Koda material that's worth picking up. You can check out Gino's bit every Friday morning at 6:00am EDT at www.wpon.com |
|
Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-02-03 18:22:01 Comments: Marty, I agree that there are times when the stopwatch is more reliable than the label itself for timing. You never know when you need to use that as a reference. |
|
Name: John
Adkins From: Phoenix Time: 2000-02-03 23:12:45 Comments: Brian--Brenda & the Tabs is mono on the Rhino Soul Hits Of The '70s Vol. 4 CD, and a disc dub (one can hear surface noise at least once near the top). Not much of a high end on it either. |
|
Name: Jay
Connors Time: 2000-02-03 23:41:59 Comments: Dear Boppin Brian, I have a Brenda and the Tabulations domestic release called Dry Your Eyes. JG4001-2. Contains 14 monaural songs. 12 were on the original dionn records release, and two are previous unreleased bonus tracks. I have it on right now listening to it, and the sound is wonderful. Unreleased bonus track is a bit of a mistake by the label to call them that as one was a single release that charted at number 17 in 1968, When You're gone, which is as good as anything else they have done (which is to say supurb)! This is a straight reissue of their 1967 LP Dry Your Eyes. Sound is from the original master tapes, and to me never sounded as clear. This is available at Tower on the Net. I bought it on sale for about twelve dollars a couple of months ago. Well worth the purchase! Lots of enjoyment from odd cuts like Beach Boys God Only Knows. Right on the Tip of my Tongue isn't on it, but a total of five charted items are. Is this the CD you were asking about or is there another one I don't know about? |
|
Name: Test Time: 2000-02-03 23:45:57 Comments: Please excuse this post, I just wanted to see |