This page contains the messages put onto the BSN Stereo Chat Board during January, 2000. They are in chronological order from first to last. To search for specific topics, use the "find" utility on your browser. For a search of the complete archives, please go to the Stereo Chat Board Archives Main Page.
|
Name: Paul
Bigelow From: Austin, TX Time: 2000-01-01 06:36:00 Comments: Happy New Year everyone! I guess the site is still up and running! I wonder if the Sundazed Box Tops reissues are going to contain anything new or remixes? |
|
Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-01 23:59:27 Comments: WELCOME TO THE NEW MILLENNIUM! I have some requests. Now that it's 1900, I was wondering if any BSN members may have found these hits: "My Wild Irish Rose", "Sweet Rosie O'Grady" or "Break The News To Mother" by George J. Gaskin issued in the new wax disc format? My copies are on cylinder and I would only like to upgrade if there is a definite sound improvement. Massie? Daugherty? Bytlephan? Anyone? Psst. I'm not sure if this is true or not or just something Luke mentioned in a recent Western Union telegram to me...but you know the current march hit "Stars And Stripes Forever" by The Sousa Band (Columbia #532)? I've recently heard that Tom Moulton has done a synch-up which gives this march a much fuller, multi-dimensional sound if you play it through a left and right horn simultaneously. I just wonder if it sounds "gimmicky". On a related musical note, I just purchased a used cylinder version of "Cornfield Melody" by The Haydn Quartet in the bargain bin at Woolworths. Cheap - 99 cents. This is a good find since this song according to Whitburn only went as high as #4. But I do like to collect mid-chart hits! Problem is, the cylinder is quite noisy. Mike Callahan made reference to this in his first newsletter (BSN #1) by giving it a low "C" with the comment "sounds like a noisy cylinder." (But Mike, it is!) So my question: is there any device available to remove all the noise? How about it T.D.? Well, I've saved the best for last. Now this is only a rumor. You didn't hear it from me. But the Edison masters currently owned by Allyn Kline have been promised to come out next year in 1901 on wax! You will remember that all of the these hits were once out on cylinder, but when the new wax disc format recently became available, this material was suspiciously never reissued due to some legal matters. To those of us who prefer the sound on wax discs (and judging by recent posts, most BSN readers do), this will be a great addition to us wax fanatics' collections. Oh, lastly... I've had the premiere edition of "Both Sides Now" for a year now. Does anyone know when M. Callahan Sr. plans to issue edition #2 ? |
|
Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-02 08:38:07 Comments: Marty, I'm sure you meant 2000 and 2001 for all date mentions. |
|
Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-02 11:10:04 Comments: Marty, I realize your last post was tongue-in-cheek, but for those who might be interested in taking the matter seriously, this is how it might be done: You may want to modify your cylinder player and install a Stanton 681EEE with a D6827 stylus. Wire the pickup for out-of-phase mono (the cylinders have vertical modulation, rather than the lateral modulation used on conventional mono discs), then connect the output of the pickup to a Hi-Z microphone input. Don't use a phono input, as the cylinders don't use RIAA compensation. Connect the output of the microphone preamp through a Burwen DNF-1201A Dynamic Noise Filter and you should get a halfway decent dub from cylinders. The same method can be used on a Rameses turntable from Esoteric Audio, with these speeds (33.33, 45, 71.29, 76.59, 78.26, 80 rpm) and a pitch control to play Edison Diamond Discs and Pathe vertical cut discs. |
|
Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-02 16:08:34 Comments: Oops. Very sorry. It was a real Y2K problem which had me momentarily back in the year 1900! I never thought that a Radio Shack computer with six bytes of total memory (purchased in 1982) and running a somewhat early version of Windows (Windows 83) would be susceptible to this problem. Gee --Instead of trying to find Peter & Gordon in real stereo, I should have bought a new computer before New Years! Now before Tom Daly gives me the definitive recommendations on what kind of computer and peripherals to buy, this was all tongue-in-cheek. But if anyone does have those ancient wax discs, Tom's suggestions seem quite well researched and presented. Tom.. was the disc transfer of "Cry" by The Knightsbridge Strings done this way? (Just kidding.) After reading the list of suggested processing equipment, I did do a quick check of Biblical history so my guess is you can probably buy a Rameses turntable at a "Crazy Rameses" discount store anywhere in Egypt. That's the chain that has the commercials: "Hi! I'm 'Crazy Rameses' and you should buy your stereo equipment from me. Buy from me. Crazy prices. Best deals in town. I'm 'Crazy Rameses' and I'm C-R-A-A-A-Z-E-E-E-E! |
|
Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-02 18:26:10 Comments: Marty, What you need to do now is to take your computer to the transfer station and discard it or donate it to one of your local thrift shops and then buy a new computer. |
|
Name: Joel
Goldenberg From: Montreal Time: 2000-01-02 20:43:14 Comments: Recently saw the liner notes to Simon and Garfunkel's Old Friends set. It says the original pressings of S and G's 1960s albums contained great sound, which then deteriorated with each new LP and then CD pressing. Is this a general rule with LPs? I know I've heard the same regarding the original stereo LP pressing of Elvis Is Back. I'd like to hear if others have had similar experiences. By the way, EMI Canada's 50th anniversary set for the 1970s is a major disappointment, an overload of Sonic Solutions noise suppression. |
|
Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-02 21:24:31 Comments: You'll hear lots of differing opinions on this. In the case of Columbia product, including "Simon And Garfunkel", the original songs were compiled into a master reel. Because these (usually 12) songs may have been mixed at different times and conditions, certain minor corrections needed to be made track-by-track. These may include slight level variations, slight eq changes and perhaps slight limiting. Once these corrections were made and incorporated on a "final master" production tape, this would be the tape used to cut all lacquers in the future. Now, we're not sure when or how much analog tape may deteriorate based on how many times it is played on a professional Ampex recorder. But in the case of a hit album (like S&G), Columbia needed to make not only initial lacquers for their three then pressing plants (usually two sets for each plant), but also lacquers for most of their foreign owned companies (which I believe were getting lacquers, not tape copies.) Figure that this same "production master" was used each and every time and you can understand that some deterioration from constant playing, winding, heat, etc. would occur over time. This would be less likely on an LP by The Peanut Butter Conspiracy since it may have been used only once to cut a few sets of lacquers. But add to this another variable... vinyl quality. It is also possible that a later version of this LP may have been pressed with vinyl not quite as good. Admittedly the problem here would not be so much in frequency response, but in more noise, clicks and pops, etc. So in summation, yes, probably slight changes in later pressings. |
|
Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-02 21:26:55 Comments: I don't think it is always the case when the sound quality of an album deteriorates with each pressing. There is a fair amount of excellent sounding CD reissues of catalog albums even some of the 1980's CD reissues of music from the 1950's-1970's have good sound. There are poor sounding reissues and poor sounding first pressings. |
|
Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-02 21:46:23 Comments: One last point regarding Joel Goldenberg's post. My reply addressed itself to making of lacquers for vinyl pressings. With CD duplication, the majors generally use only one CD production facility for their product. In many cases, especially if a re-issue producer is working closely on a project, a record label will endeavor to go back to the original master tape (not a production copy.) But you must also understand the other side of the coin. Artists and producers take their work seriously. They want to make sure that ALL product issued sounds EXACTLY like the way they approved it. They are reluctant to have self-styled mastering experts take their original tapes and enhance them the way they feel they should sound. So with some artists (like Stevie Wonder) all his later "master" tapes reside with him. Universal has only the "approved for final mastering" tape copies. But fret not, there are still a handful of reissue producers who are adamant in at least trying to use original masters rather than production copies. Sometimes they win out, sometimes they don't. |
|
Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-02 21:48:09 Comments: To Marty & Joel: Marty, what is, perhaps, more to the point of Joel's question, is that on hit albums like those from S&G, the stampers were used more than they should have been before they were replaced with new ones; which, obviously resulted in poorer sound quality as time went on. Joel, in addition to the great results that Bob Irwin gave us on OLD FRIENDS, you might be surprised to find that the quality of sound that Mobile Fidelity gave us on their special audiophile pressing of Bookends is so good as not to be believed! I admit that I prefer the sound off of a pristine original <<--- 360 Stereo -->> pressing (it is more open), but the MoFi Gold CD is soooo close, it could make a believer out of digiphobes. Alas, Mobile Fidelity is no more, so you might have difficulty in finding one these days. |
|
Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-02 23:33:37 Comments: In response to Steve Baird.. point well taken. But Columbia was generally very quality conscious about replacing lacquers and generating new stampers when needed. Remember, they had their own studios and mastering rooms, many engineers, many cutting lathes always running and it was never a time or cost problem to cut new parts. (This may not have been true for some indie labels.) But every time a new lacquer was generated, and on S&G we're talking about over a period of many years, it was the same production master in New York that would always get the most use and abuse. I still maintain that a lacquer made ten years after the initial release but using the same analog tape for that ten year period, this is where you might start finding a slight degradation in sound probably coming from the tape itself . Columbia and Epic have admitted that the hit single 45 master tapes from the 50's are often in such worn shape that they will use an alternate master, for example, perhaps from an LP master ("Greatest Hits" or various artist collection). Even though it is 2nd generation, it still is often in better shape than the original. And again, the worn master tapes are going to be the ones which were most used. Incidentally, though many record companies always relied on a 2nd generation copy to serve as an album master, this was not uniformly true for every situation. For example, "Thriller" by Michael Jackson was mastered independently of Columbia by Bernie Grundman (a well known and well respected Los Angeles mastering engineer.) He had the original original (typed twice for emphasis) in his studio and whenever a new lacquer was needed, he made it. He has a custom console which allows him to do eq and level settings in advance of the track being mastered, so he could incorporate all these subtleties as he was making lacquers without using a production master. |
|
Name: Dave
Daugherty From: Dublin, Ohio Time: 2000-01-03 09:00:43 Comments: Just to echo Steve Baird's comments.......I bought the Mobile Fidelity "Bookends" CD as a little Chrismas gift to myself this year. I had passed it by several times figuring it couldn't be much better than the "Old Friends" transfer (after all, they had to be working from the same tape, right?) Boy, was I stunned when I put it on!! The sound on the "Old Friends" tracks is very very good, but the MO FI disc takes it to a whole new level. More detailed highs, more dynamic range and a bottom end I didn't even know existed on that album. After hearing this, I'm really sorry to see Mobile Fidelity go away. If you like Simon & Garfunkel, this is a landmark album that you might want to find before it's too late. |
|
Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-03 21:35:37 Comments: Brother Dave: Not to speak ill of the dead, but MoFis were often hit or miss. There were some real dandies in their crop, however, and, from memory, here's my list of the FIVE best sounding Mobile Fidelity CDs ever released: 1. Cat Stevens: Tea For The Tillerman 2. Allman Brothers: Eat A Peach 3. Joe Cocker: Mad Dogs & Englishmen (gain 2 version released last year) 4. Simon & Garfunkel: Bookends 5. Duke Ellington: Blues in Orbit (This was the very LAST MoFi release, and very few of them hit the stores. If you are one of the lucky ones to get this one, you are a truly blessed soul. This was MoFi's first foray into dual layered SACD/DSD and backwards compatible 16/44.1, and it is a landmark in sound. There are a few titles left at some of the major suppliers; I got my second copy of Bookends from Total E just today. I doubt you'll find the others anywhere else besides ebay for big bucks now, though. |
|
Name: Dave From: Tucson Time: 2000-01-04 09:28:20 Comments: As a long-time broadcast engineer and DJ, I must agree with Marty's comments. We used tape extensively in radio and could see measureable deterioration in as little as 50 passes over the heads; and that is with industrial-strength tape made for broadcast cartridges. The Scotch 408 (?, can't remember the number for certain) used by the studios was optimized more for response than multi-passes. Another trend I noticed over the years was less and less effort put into everyday cleaning of heads and pressure rollers. If this trend also prevailed in the studios it could be another contributing factor to poorer sound quality. Finally, as integrated circuits made their way into equipment overall frequency response dropped. For those who may doubt that, check some of the published audio equipment specifications of 1950-1960-1970-1980. You'll notice two things, the noise level improved but the response went from 20 Hz at the lower end to 30 and 50 Hz. Result, less base. High end went from 20 Khz down to 18 or 15 khz. Result, less clear high end. Overall listener result, thinner sounding tapes with less low and high ends. |
|
Name: jonr Website: Phil Spector`s Wall Of Sound Time: 2000-01-04 12:22:47 Comments: Dionne Warwick. Need help finding a nice sounding stereo cd comp from Dionne Warwick from her 60s hit days on the Scepter label.I just need the hits,nothing fancy.I was checking around and there seems to be all kinds of issues and I`m not a "psychic",so what`s the best bang for my buck? Thanks |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-04 14:28:59 Comments: Dave, the deck's head design and material that the heads are made of are also a factor of the dropped frequency response in later decks. On my wall I have several Dionne Warwick comps. The one with the best overview of her 60's output is "The Dionne Warwick Collection: Her All-time Greatest Hits", Rhino R2 71100, stereo. It doesn't sound the best, but Arista/BMG put one out last year that covers her Scepter and Arista output with her 1974 one-off single with the Spinners, "Then Came You". The sound of the Arista disc is excellent, with 20-bit mastering. Other than sporadic releases of her Warner Bros. tracks, there are no currently available comps of her mid-70's material, although one studio album has shown up on CD. beetlefan |
|
Name: Chas Time: 2000-01-04 20:34:11 Comments: Call Dionne Warwicks SIDEGIG NETWORK and ask one of her SIDEKICKS...Maybe they can tell us what the future brings for her back catalog..Happy New Year...To all the BSN "Cheerleaders"...Wow all the interest in MOFI..Funny when they were alive everyone COMPLAINED..As usual the DEAD brings out sudden interest LOL..Gotta Love It!!!!!! |
|
Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-04 21:18:31 Comments: Goldmine has printed my correction that I wrote to them stating that the Charlie Daniels Band's top 40 country hit "Texas" isn't on his 1974 album "Fire On The Mountain," (which features the hits "The South's Gonna Do It" and "Long Haired Country Boy") but is on his followup LP from 1975, "Nightrider," which were both originally released on Kama Sutra but have both been reissued on Epic and are currently available on CD from Sony. |
|
Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-04 22:43:19 Comments: Here's another point to consider regarding mastering for vinyl (you remember, those funny black round things?) Even if every lacquer part was cut from the same production master, the major record companies back in the 50's and 60's had MANY different mastering rooms. Each one had a different analog tape machine, all the cutting lathes had different cutter heads. Even if an engineer did not do any personal "embellishments" but transferred the tape exactly as specified, look at all the variables -- electronics in tape machines don't all perform to the same specs (especially over time), bad tube components in original Ampex machines, worn or ever-so-slightly misaligned/magnetized/or just plain dirty tape heads, bad tape glides producing "edge" damage, bad "flat" winding at normal speed (to have tape 'tails out' for storage). Then, many Ampex machines would wind the tape too tight, or the tape would be left on a machine that dissipated excessive heat from the motors. We know that heat is great if you're living in Boca Raton (had to say hi to S. Massie), but it ain't so good for recording tape. So you can see all the chances for problems, yes? Then add to that inexperienced (or trainee) engineers who were not quite adept at the fine points of handling tape. Tapes can spill and often get mangled, tapes consequently have to be respliced... sometimes poorly ... and the list goes on. And as we've seen too many times, a master tape was obviously damaged (usually acidentally) by an engineer who was probably too afraid of his job to tell anyone.. so nowhere is there any notation on the tape box that a few seconds of music are now garbled, or WORSE, a few seconds of tape is missing! As Steve Baird mentioned in an earlier post, this doesn't even address itself to the problems of pressing records with worn stampers (or any other manufacturing related problems.) Now our main concern has to be preservation of what is left and hasn't already been ruined or totally destroyed. |
|
Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-05 08:55:13 Comments: Marty, I don't deny that you are right about all of those variables back in the good ol' days of licorice pizza; but they still exist. I'm sure that anyone who's ever copied a CD on his computer will attest to the fact that even the brand of blank used to make the copy contributes to some very minor, but real, differences. I don't know why, but A&M has played significantly into some very major sonic differences I've been witness to as an audiophile. For example, I have an early copy of the Supertramp CD, *Crisis, What Crisis?* that sounds incredible. When a few audiophile friends in other cities heard mine, they ran out to get the CD. Upon playing these copies, and comparing them to mine, we were extremely disappointed to find that theirs did not sound the same (we've never been able to determine why). On another forum, there has been recent discussion about the remasters of the Eagles' first 7 releases by one Ted Jensen at Sterling. I sought out *Desperado* which has always been an audiophile favorite on the British vinyl pressing. Not only is Jensen's significantly inferior to the original LP, I haven't yet decided whether there's enough there to say the new CD is any better at all than the old one. It really does all boil down to expertise and equipment. In some instances, I've learned of CD reissues that were done where the same engineer who originally did the record used exactly the same tape machine to master his CD reissue. In one case that I know of (M&K's *For Duke* mastered in both instances by Ken Kreisel) the results are so astonishing that the CD is completely indistinguishable from the record -- which, to an audiophile, is exactly as it should be. |
|
Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-05 11:40:50 Comments: Over the holidays I was talking to a fellow who worked, for years, at a famous disc cutting lab here in NYC...his name appears on many famous '60s LPS, and hes been in the business forever. What he mentioned to me was that regarding all the debate today about the easy manipulation of Digital vs the pure sound of analog , he said that they had the SAME battle in the early '60s when transistors started to replace tubes...he said that the early transistor equipment sounded DREADFUL in comparison to tubes, and that the studio owners bought them soley because they would be cheaper to buy, maintain, and would use up less electricity. Funny how things never change!!! Mikey |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-05 14:24:42 Comments: Steve's comments are on the money, and should really drive home the point that when we buy CD's we don't really get a representation of what's on the tape. There are just too many factors involved, from the tape, right down to our listening rooms. Mastering veteren Ted Jensen, while very talented, has a reputation for attempting to make tapes sound a bit more *modern*. I didn't care for his Eagles remasters. I didn't find any significant improvements over the original CD's. In fact, I thought the original WEA CD of "Hotel California" sounded better, but the DCC version sounds *the* best! I have at times, remastered some of my homemade CD-R's, using different software and methods than the first time I made the CD, and have actually wound up with virtually the *same* results. This says to me that skill and a unique hearing perspective, have a lot to do with remastering. beetle |
|
Name: Doug
Peck From: Elk Grove, CA Time: 2000-01-05 14:36:00 Comments: Question to Marty and others in the industry who have knowledge of record pressing and related matters: Isn't it true that when pressing vinyl, certain equalization adjustments (tradeoffs?) need to often be made in order to improve trackability and to prevent distortion? I thought that specially eq'd pressing master tapes had to be made from the sub-master two track (stereo) or full-track (mono) tape. So if one of those pressing sub-master tapes was either damaged or destroyed, a new one had to be made which would put another variable into the equation. At the same time, though, it would preserve the sub-master and ensure that it would not be played (worn) as often as the pressing masters would be. Another thing that I thought was true was that in the early days of cd replication, the record companies would simply give the cd replicator the two-track sub-master that had been eq'd for vinyl pressing and that's why many of the early cd's sounded so bad. And who knows how many Special Products projects still use those tapes! Please comment on this, as I'm not sure I'm right and anyone interested in this discussion would undoubtedly enjoy your responses. Happy New Year to everyone! |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-05 17:48:35 Comments: While not an industry insider, I can tell you that you are basically correct. But, the general rule is that once EQ'd masters were made, the first generation mixdown master was safely tucked away and sometimes labled something like, "Do Not Use" or "Not For Production". In fact, this is how a lot of pristine master reels are labled. Or, they would use safety copies, sometimes made during the mixdown session or copied from the mixdown tape. Many times, companies would send copies out to two, three, or more pressing plants, not to mention overseas and for consumer open reel, cassette, 8-track, and other formats, and those tapes would also have to be modified for those particular formats. EQ'ed tapes for the vinyl format being used for CD production is one of many reasons why early CD's sounded bad. Early converters and some engineers' inexperience with the digital technology are two more reasons. Many manufacturers of pro digital equipment, like 3M, Sony, and Mitsubishi used to even provide instruction for engineers. Still, many fine digital recordings from that period were still made by people like Don Grusin, Roger Nichols. Until someone like Marty W. or Tom D. replies, I hope this helps. beetle |
|
Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-05 18:51:27 Comments: To: Doug Peck, first let me apologize: I am not an expert on anything; just a guy who fell in love with quality sound almost 40 years ago. I don’t profess to know everything, or even a lot of things, but I do know this: You are absolutely correct about how much of the music was altered to maintain its trackability on vinyl. Given the dimensions and dynamics of the record groove, and the low compliance of the majority of phono cartridges throughout much of the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s, engineers were compelled to roll off both high and low frequencies in order to insure that their products would be playable on nearly all, if not all, of the record players their potential customers might own. Without getting too deeply into all of the variables associated with optimum phono playback, just let me mention that as the 70’s were emerging, so too was state-of-the-art phono playback making its way into many homes. Thanks to much of the research that dedicated and knowledgeable folks with an interest in improving the sound we heard from records, low mass, high compliance cartridges -- from such companies as Shure and ADC -- that could track even the most difficult records were designed and became commonplace. For the audiophile purist, even tonearm resonant frequencies were brought into consideration. If the resonant frequency of the tonearm did not approximate that same specification for the cartridge, then mis-tracking could be anticipated. As for these adjustments to avoid mis-tracking being made directly to the tape, I’ll defer to the experts. It seems likely.
To Mikey: hey guy, you’re showing your age! Do you remember the old Lafayette Radio and
Electronics chain headquartered in New York? Don’t know when they went out of business, but I can
tell you this: after hearing my brother’s super sounding LRE setup (about 1962), I marched right down
to one of their DC area stores in northern VA (not too far from where Mike Callahan lives), to buy the
same setup. The salesman told me that my brother’s inferior tube based receiver had been
discontinued; it had been replaced by this super-duper transistor receiver that put out three times the
watts and no heat — the speakers were still current, though. And the best part was that it, the receiver,
cost only $50 more! I bought it, took it home, set it up, but, ya know, it didn’t sound the same. It was
downright awful sounding. |
|
Name: Dave From: Tucson Time: 2000-01-05 21:41:38 Comments: There is some misinformation being propogated here. The equalization, known as the RIAA curve, was developed to improve the signal-to-noise ratio of vinyl recordings and had nothing to do with tracking. The mathematical formulas are easy to find with a little research, but in essence they roll-off the low end and boost the high-end to get this improvement. The same technique is used on FM radio and is know as the 75 microsecond pre-emphasis curve. Look at some of the Mercury and Columbia recordings of the mid-60s and they pushed the amplitude of the audio to the maximum they could without breaking down the groove walls. The idea was for the sound to leap out of your speakers. Compare records of the same time to lables like Decca and RCA which both refused to play the loudness game. Dave |
|
Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-05 22:15:25 Comments: Well, I don't claim to be an expert at pressing. But I can do slacks for $2.25 - shirts for $1.75 - In by 8AM - out by 5PM. We're closed Sundays. |
|
Name: Mike
Hartman From: Vernon Hills, IL Time: 2000-01-06 09:34:58 Comments: Wow! My head is spinning with all this talk. Hey, anyone have any good stereo finds lately or reviews of re-issues? |
|
Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: New Jersey Time: 2000-01-06 10:21:38 Comments: To Dave, sorry, but the EQ fiddling that Steve and others are talking about has nothing to do with the RIAA curve. The RIAA curve is applied via the cutting head electronics and is not usually fiddled with. We're talking about the then common practice to roll-off low frequencies around 60-100Hz at the cutting stage to avoid tracking problems and increase the total allowable playing time per side. (Low frequencies eat up a lot of groove space.) Improving the S/N ratio was not the main reason for the RIAA curve. That was secondary . It's main purpose was to be able to fit at least 30 minutes of High Fidelity sound on a 12" disc side. By attenuating the low frequencies at the cutting head (and the reciprocal boost at the phono preamp stage), one was able to have (reasonably) good sound with maximum playing time per side. The idea of boosting the highs during cutting, and the attenuation applied at our end came much, much earlier and was common practice among all record companies (each had their own "curve"). The RIAA curve just standardized it. |
|
Name: Randy Vest From: NYC Time: 2000-01-06 12:49:34 Comments: Hey Mike Hartman, thanks for saying it! Yeah, all this technical talk has my "mind in a whirl" (to quote an early Ike & Tina tune!) Wish I had some new finds to report here to steer the conversation back to stereo. Did pick up Westside's new Jackie Wilson compilation of late 60s/early 70s "northern soul"-type cuts which is 99% stereo and has really good sound. Does that help? :>) |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-06 13:15:05 Comments: Randy, I think all this tech talk is all part of the music experience, and I love it! But, seeing as how some don't care about the technical aspects of recordings... Has anyone here checked out the Sony Music 100 years box or any of the many double CD sets taken from it yet? I bought "Pop Music: the Golden Era, 1951-1975", and "Pop Music: The Modern Era, 1976-1999". The sound is really terrific, and sounds like they went the extra mile to find the best tapes out there. Lots of stereo. They even went as far as to re-edit some bad splices. I thought I mentiond this series before, but no one commented on it. Perhaps no one has heard them. beetlefan |
|
Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-06 14:18:39 Comments: To Steve Baird.....Hey guy, I'm only 40!! And I sure DO remember Lafayette Electronics on 14th st and Union Square. I cant tell you how many times I hooped down there from my house to go look at all the cool audio stuff they had. And as far as tube amps goes, you are quite right. I used a 1960 EICO 40 watt tube stereo amp that my dad built from a kit up untill 10 years ago when I got into high end Audio. that amp sounded so GREAT it was unbelievable. Solid state sounded flat compared to it. I distinctly remember my A-1 pressing of The Associations "Along Comes Mary" LP on that system sounded like studio master tapes. I wish I had that press today on my new system!! |
|
Name: Dave From: Tucson Time: 2000-01-06 16:21:07 Comments: Chip, May I respectfully disagree. Please read the original NARTB Standards published in 1949, the section under Signal To Noise Ratio describes the roll-off characteristics. The NARTB standard was that adopted by the RIAA, as you stated, to standardize the various equalization curves used after World War II. Also, the equalization was done in the recording equipment electronics, not in the recording head. Sometime during the 50's many of the studios starting EQing the tapes versus letting the electonics do it. Perhaps one of our studio veterans can shed more information on that. Dave |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-06 16:37:58 Comments: In 1972, as a 10 year-old, my first cassette player was a Lafayette. |
|
Name: Jay
Connors From: Greater New York Time: 2000-01-06 17:24:42 Comments: Randy, You said something I have been wondering about for sometime now. Jackie Wilson "Northern Soul" type cuts. What is "Northern Soul"? I have heard the term around, and I know it has to do with the north of England, but other than that I don't have a clue. Does it refer to a time frame? A certain style? A set of labels? What would make one Jackie Wilson cut a "Northern Soul" song, and another not? Anybody an expert on this out there? |
|
Name: Marty
Blaise Website: The Blaise Page From: Houston, Texas Time: 2000-01-06 17:34:01 Comments: Does anyone know if any of the following recordings exist in true stereo? I'm checking on a few instrumentals as you can see. Applejacks - Mexican Hat Rock, H.B. Barnum - Lost Love, Vincent Bell - Airport Love Theme, Billy Joe & Checkmates - Percolator, Boots Brown - Cerveza, Busters - Bust Out, Joe Carr - Portuguese Washerwomen, Daddy-O's - Got A Match, Dicky Doo-click Clack and Nee Nee Na Na Na Na Nu Nu, Duals-Stick Shift, Bobby Gregg-The Jam Part I, Islanders - The Enchaned Sea, Freddy King-Hideaway, Moe Koffman - Swinging Shepherd Blues, Los Indios Tabajaras-Maria Elena, Meters-Cissy Strut and Sophisticated Sissy, Willie Mitchell - 20-75 and Soul Serenade, Mickey Mozart - Little Dipper, Pets-ChaHuaHua, Pyramids-Penetration, Rebels-Wild Weekend, Royaltones-Poor Boy, Lou Stein-Almost Paradise ,Stringalongs-Brass Buttons, Waikikis - Hawaii Tattoo, Wailers-Tall Cool One, Walter Wanderly-Summer Samba. Thanks. |
|
Name: Randy
Price Website: Referred by: NewsGroups From: New York Time: 2000-01-06 20:15:04 Comments: Marty, Here are CD sources for many of the instrumentals you listed: "Airport Love Theme": Billboard Top Soft Rock Hits - 1970 (Rhino R2-72736); Instrumental Favorites: Movie Magic (Time-Life R986-07) "The Enchanted Sea": Discoveries Presents Stereo Instrumental Oldies (Varese VSD-6009); Instrumental Favorites - Exotic Moods (Time-Life R986-19); Your Hit Parade - ’50s Instrumentals (Time-Life HPD-30) "Maria Elena": at least a half-dozen CDs, including Nipper’s Greatest Hits: The 60s - Vol. 1 (RCA 7863 67871-2 [Remaster]) "Cissy Strut": also at least a half-dozen CDs, including Funkify Your Life: The Meters Anthology (Rhino R2-71869) ("Sophisticated Cissy" is also on this CD in stereo) "20-75": History of Hi Records: R&B - Vol. 1 (MCA MCAD-25226); The Rock ’N’ Roll Era - Axes & Saxes: The Great Instrumentals (Time-Life 2RNR-36) "Soul Serenade": about a half-dozen, including Soul Serenade - The Best of Willie Mitchell (Right Stuff 72434-99802-2) "Brass Buttons": Teen Beat - Vol. 3 (Ace (UK) CDCH-602); Wheels (Ace (UK) CDCH-390) "Hawaii Tattoo": Vintage Instrumentals Vol. One (Stardust CD-1012) "Summer Samba": another six-pack, including More Instrumental Gems of the ‘60s (Collectors’ Choice DPSM-5190) |
|
Name: Chuck
Iverson From: S. F. bayare Time: 2000-01-06 20:46:27 Comments: Instrumental Madness cont'd: Let me add Poor Boy/Royaltones in mono and stereo on AL-CD6310121: titled The Royaltones either meet or VS the Ramrods. Also includes Flamingo Express in [fair] stereo. On Alvorado Music from Barcelona Spain 32 tracks. |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-06 21:26:26 Comments: Jay Conners, It has nothing to do with England. "Northern soul" is the cousin of "southern soul". Soul music from places like Philadelphia, Chicago, and Detroit had a different flavor than the stuff from Memphis, New Orleans, and Muscle Shoals, back in the days when music was more regional. Jackie Wilson was American. In fact, the Funk Brothers, Motown's house band, played on Jackie's hit, "Your Love Is Lifted Me Higher". It is, perhaps, the best non-Motown Motown record. |
|
Name: Charles G.
Hill Website: The Web Site Formerly Known As Chez Chaz From: Dustbury, Oklahoma Time: 2000-01-06 21:28:17 Comments: "Northern Soul", defined broadly, is R&B stuff from the 60s and early 70s issued by smallish labels (as distinguished from, say, Motown or Stax), which caught on as a craze in the 70s in the north of England and is still apparently part of a viable club scene. I started paying attention to this particular phenomenon when I went looking last year for sides by Philadelphia songstress Nella Dodds, who is well-regarded in this milieu. Dodds recorded for Scepter's Wand subsidiary, and both Scepter and Wand are considered prime Northern Soul labels; I bought two compilations, one entirely of Scepter/Wand material (Kent CDKEND 112, The Sweet Sound of Success) and one which also includes Musicor and Dynamo tracks (Goldmine Soul Supply GSCD 65, Big City Soul 4: 60 Northern Soul Classics), and between the two there is only one duplicate. Got five Nella Dodds tunes for my trouble, too. |
|
Name: Joel
Goldenberg From: Montreal Time: 2000-01-06 21:34:23 Comments: WOW! What a discussion on LP pressings. Thanks, all. I'm now committed to buying original pressings where possible. In the meantime, I'm quite disappointed with at least one of the Carpenters' remasters, Now and Then. They went back to the original mix, which was pretty thin to begin with, rather than Richard Carpenter's state of the art remixes. (All right, maybe he went slightly too far on the From the Top box, but boy was it clean!) I have the new Guess Who best-of, very clear but a little too digital. I was really boppin' to the vinyl Canned Wheat, even with the crackle. This may sound crazy, but some of my CDs sound best when I tape and play them in my car's very bassy sound system. By the way, I was really intrigued to hear about the sound quality of the different CD pressings of the Supertramp album. I'd love to hear other examples. Regarding remasterings, this has all gone so far with some remasterings being done four times! (Hello, Jimi Hendrix and Paul McCartney!) |
|
Name: Don
Duffey From: Buffalo Time: 2000-01-06 22:53:08 Comments: To Chuck I. The Royaltones vrs. The Ramrods.. I picked up this disc after reading it was stereo..WRONG..The mono tunes are mono with lots of surface noise,the "stereo" cuts are mono with reverb, plus stereo surface noise.I can't detect any separation whats so ever.Save your money! |
|
Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: New Jersey Time: 2000-01-06 23:04:10 Comments: Hi Dave! Thanks for your reply. First, I am a studio veteran! Been a recording engineer for around 15 years now. Worked in the Polygram vaults in the early Nineties. Been an audiophile and stereo nut even longer (close to 25 years), so I have more than a passing interest in the field :) I admit to being somewhat confused by your answer. I think you need to clarify to me what you mean by your use of the phrases "recording equipment electronics" and "recording head". Do you mean on a tape recorder or a disc cutting lathe? Assuming you mean a cutting lathe, then you are correct. The RIAA curve is applied via the cutting lathe's electronics, not the cutting head itself. This is my fault. I tend to think of the two as one entity, and my meaning wasn't clear. However, I still think you are confusing a number of concepts and disciplines here. I get the impression that you think that the RIAA curve is applied to the master tape used to cut disc lacquers, and that the cutting head electronics have their RIAA curve EQ bypassed. If this is what you mean, I can state absolutely and without hesitation that that is not the case!! The RIAA curve is applied via the cutting head electronics to the cutting head. It is done no other way. Period. It's a closed system. There is no such thing as a RIAA curve encoded tape. If there was, how would the cutting engineer know when something was wrong with the sound? He would be hearing a tape with a -20dB cut starting at around 30Hz, and a rising high end that would shatter glass by the time it got to around 20 kHz! He would never be able to judge if the frequency balance was good, or if he needed to tame a bass peak that would cause problems when pressed. The EQing we have all been discussing is the equivalent of messing with the bass and treble controls on your stereo. Totally seperate issue. I think any other correspondence between us on this matter should go to our private e-mail addresses. I think the others may get restless with this topic. Or not. Whatta 'bout it people? |
|
Name: Willie From: San Francisco Time: 2000-01-07 00:57:52 Comments: I have 2 questions. Does anyone remember a song called "Snow Queen" by the Roger Nichols Trio? I cannot find a single person who remembers this song. It did not chart but got some airplay in the SF Bay Area in the late 60s. I don't know if its the same Roger Nichols that we hear about as a producer/engineer etc. Of course, what I would most like to know is if anyone has seen it on CD. Second, I bought a remastered copy of "The Long Run" by the Eagles. It is an improvement over the existing offering that has been out for 10 years or so. Not overwhelming, but a discernable improvement. Great album, so gotta have the best version. |
|
Name: Jay
Connors From: New York Metro Time: 2000-01-07 01:56:39 Comments: Hey Willie, wassssup?! I believe the song you are referring to is the same one Carol King released with a group called The City. I think the label was Ode, the same one Scott McKenzie was on with "San Francisco." Roger Nichols was I believe on A & M, with the same (great) song. And I do believe you see Mr. Nichols name all over the place on A & M product in the years following the release of Snow Queen, as either engineer, producer, arranger, etc. Your post brings to mind another song of that era, one which was included in the Midnight Cowboy film. The artist is Evie Sands, also on A & M, and the song is "Crazy Annie". Would anyone reading this know if this song is available on CD? It's an all time favorite of mine that was sadly overlooked most places, but may have charted somewhere. [ -- Roger Nichols' "Snow Queen" was issued in 8/68 on A&M 965. Evie Sands' "Crazy Annie" made #116 nationally, so it obviously charted SOMEWHERE. It was on A&M 1157, charting 1/70. -- MC] |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-07 03:48:01 Comments: Willie, I have the remastered version of "The Long Run" and it is just a slight improvement over the old WEA CD issue. The improvements are a slight deepening of the bass. To be honest, it's probably not really worth it. I hope one day that Steve Hoffman at DCC will remaster this one. He did such a great job with the "Eagles Greatest Hits", and "Hotel California". I'd like to read more on this forum about disc cutting. I've just gotten back into vinyl collecting primarilly because I make CD-R's out of them. |
|
Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-07 09:35:09 Comments: Speaking of audio dubs, I dubbed the "Urban Cowboy" soundtrack CD reissue (the album was originally released in 1980) which is still in print on a cassette tape and the audio dub sounded worse than the CD itself. The CD only has about Good to Excellent sound quality and would rate to somewhere around a B to B- which isn't bad at all, but this is one of my favorite movies and contains lots of my favorite songs in any genre. When I dubbed Sony/Legacy reissue of "Jimmy Dean's Greatest Hits" the dub matched the sound quality of the CD. This CD was mastered very well (I'd rate it somewhere around a high B to an A). |
|
Name: Chuck
Iverson From: SF bay area Time: 2000-01-07 11:10:59 Comments: First, I re-listened to the Royaltones meets the Ramrods, headphones, correctly in place, and I will agree that Poor Boy, was probably a good *Duophonic* job, not TS. Whatever happened to truth in advertising? The disc cover clearly states Stereo on several cuts. Second, The Roger Nichols song Snow Queen was a big Calif hit. The RN trio played on most A & M records and its rumored that the Carpenters did the background vocals [listen], while they were waiting for their big break. |
|
Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-07 11:23:06 Comments: Chuck, I don't know what happened to truth in advertising, as it seems to have died. They only said stereo to get stereo collectors into buying the CD. I don't like seeing stereo claims on recordings when they really aren't stereo. |
|
Name: Marty
Blaise Time: 2000-01-07 11:29:45 Comments: Re: Royaltones - maybe someone with a CDR or CDRW and software that has a good "widening" program could check out this track. A friend of mine just installed a CDR. I showed him how to split Jumping Jack Flash wide apart, revealing more than he'd heard before. The Who's Call Me Lightning is definitely stereo, if you use the widener part of the software (thanks to those who did so for me). Also wonder if using the OOPS process might show anything about the Royaltones (or other) tracks. |
|
Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-07 18:16:56 Comments: Very often, the slight improvements you hear in CD mastering are no more than slight eq changes. In some cases, the original tapes have all the fullness and richness, but when they were used for generating LP lacquers they may have required some of the following processing: low and high frequency roloff, low and high pass filtering, compression and limiting. All this was necessary to generate an LP or '45 which would be cut at an acceptably loud level and would also track on all varieties of playback systems. Though we did get used to hearing our favorite albums with some of the above mentioned "added features", the tapes certainly weren't recorded this way. Of course with CDs, we don't have to worry about cutter heads, hence no need for roloff, limiting, etc. All we are really concerned about is getting the "maximum" sound level on a CD and the equipment in the Sonic and Cedar systems will readily show you if you are getting any unacceptable "peaks" (or "overs") which must be corrected before supplying a finished 1630 or exabyte master to the plant. So with a high quality source master which is presumably still in excellent shape, and by doing either no, or a minimal amount of eq work to maybe "warm up" the sound ever so slightly, you can wind up with a very fine sounding CD end product. And the new a/d converters and 24 bit mastering systems DO give an added improvement. Those of you who have read my previous posts, know that I feel that there is no legitimate reason to ever generate artifacts when mastering. If you can use the new computer technology to make slight improvements in the noise floor without ruing the integrity of the music "at all", then you are a "mastering virtuoso." But if your intent is to create a totally noise free sounding product from something which originally had a great deal of noise....... who's kidding who...you are going to be making a big sacrifice in the end product which I don't think is acceptable. Your final sounding product may sound quiet; it will also sound lifeless. You might be (in old advertising parlance) be "trading a headache for an upset stomach!" I'm sure any PROFESSIONAL mastering engineers will agree with this assessment regarding the issue of artifacts. Those who buy into the premise that some artifacts may be okay are ultimately doing a great disservice to the CD buyer, but more importantly, to THE MUSIC. |
|
Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-01-07 20:12:44 Comments: Marty, re: Another Who stereo cut is The Last Time from the box set. I don't have a widened version of it (I do have Call Me Lightning widened), but it's indeed stereo... |
|
Name: Alan
Carner From: Fort Smith Time: 2000-01-07 22:11:24 Comments: Has anyone found on Cd the "Hell" version of Jimmy Dean's Big John in Stereo. |
|
Name: Chris B. From: OH Time: 2000-01-08 01:15:09 Comments: Is there a "live" cd or boot of Sly @ the Family Stone? He could really rock if he showed up ready to play. His Woodstock set is consider the best of all of the performers at the original festival. |
|
Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-08 03:24:33 Comments: Bravo, Marty W! I'll add only for those who may have misinterpreted my comments on playing vinyl in the old days that much of what Marty was discussing a few posts below has largely been overcome by such contemporary analog mastering wizards as Stan Ricker and Bernie Grundman. Some of the releases from Classic Records and Analogue Productions (in Kansas) bear little in common sonically to their predecessors of yesteryear. After having heard SACD finally, I think the Holy Grail is upon us, though. I may never have to wipe the dust from my stylus ever again! |
|
Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-08 08:21:50 Comments: The "hell of a man" version of "Big Bad John" doesn't exist in stereo. The only stereo version out there is the "big, big man" version of the song. |
|
Name: Groovin'
Garrett Time: 2000-01-08 09:51:16 Comments: "Big Bad John" in stereo was mixed from 3-track, and the vocal is center. In the stereo "big big man" version, when JD recites this line, it's just his voice w/echo, nothing else, and it's pretty much mono. I've taken the line "at the bottom of this mine, lies one hell of a man...big John" from the mono vers. and spliced it in to the stereo, and it sounds fine, since the "big big man" line is for the most part mono. I can provide an MP3 file if anyone is interested in hearing this. |
|
Name: graham From: Co Time: 2000-01-08 10:46:31 Comments: Hey i have not gotten my newsletter from last quarter! Has anyone received theirs yet? I also have both big bad Johns in stereo! But the line hell of a man is in mono (just that line). Hell of a man is on Country classics series from Columbia, while the other is on American Originals Jimmys greatest hits! |
|
Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-08 13:53:04 Comments: RE: The Spokesmen: Dawn of Correction. My database tells me that I have 2 copies of this song on CD -- one on Vintage Music - Volume 09/10, the other on Sixties Rule. Both are from MCA, and both are pretty dreadful sounding. Does anyone know where this song sounds its best on CD? Also, does anyone have any info on that Rhino collection of songs of protest? How does it stack up? Is it still available? |
|
Name: beetlefan36@hotmail.com Time: 2000-01-08 14:00:59 Comments: Steve, I don't know if it's still available, and I have it, but you probably won't like it. It has lots of mono. beetlefan |
|
Name: Bernard
Smith From: England Time: 2000-01-08 16:42:50 Comments: I notice that Discollector is advertising three volumes of Cameo Parkway material. Does anyone have information on the contents of these, both track listings and sonic quality? Many thanks! |
|
Name: Mark
Probst From: Albany,NY Time: 2000-01-08 19:56:02 Comments: Help! Would like to purchase "Jerry Fuller's 30 Years Of Hits" (JFS #1001),a promo CD. The CD was reviewed/commented by Dave Mahan in Issue #34- page 415. I am interested in two (2) Rick Nelson tracks- "A Wonder Like You" and "Young World". I believe its the only CD appearance of those songs in true stereo. If others exist in true stereo I would be interested. I would certainly accept a CDR of the entire CD or just those two tracks. I will pay any and all costs involved. If anybody can help it will be greatly appreciated. Hope Dave Mahan is listening. Thank you. |
|
Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-01-09 00:01:47 Comments: The Kinks - Not really being much of a fan, does anyone know what (if any) of their early stuff has been released in stereo, and where? It seems to me somebody said their first LP was issued in stereo but the second was not, although I could be wrong. I know the recent UK remasters are mono, but... Any help would be appreciated. |
|
Name: Randy
Price Website: Referred by: NewsGroups From: New York Time: 2000-01-09 13:08:53 Comments: Luke, Rhino's 1988 You Really Got Me CD (Rhino R2 70315) is all stereo except for the title track and the three bonus tracks (which were early U.K. singles). The label's Kinda Kinks and Kinks-Size Kinkdom CDs are all mono. |
|
Name: Curt
Lundgren Website: Reel Top 40 Radio From: Twin Cities, MN. Time: 2000-01-09 14:49:34 Comments: Evidently the 1993 "History of the Dave Clark Five" (Hollywood 2-disc) has gone out of print? Three copies are being bid-up big time at EBay, with a top of $56. The single-disc version is there as well, with bid in the +$20 range. Glad I have both. Also, there is a "Bits & Pieces" import being bid on, which says it's a 1992 Australian release. Mike's review in "Oldies On CD" claims a Dutch origination. Although the EBay seller doesn't indicate a label, his listing does show the artwork and 26 tracks. |
|
Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-09 16:05:24 Comments: In desperation, I recently bought The Best of Frank Ifield/ The EMI Years on cd. What a rip! The only one of his singles that's stereo (Lovesick Blues), is an alternate take, (2:16, as opposed to 2:38, in length). Plus, "Please" is not even on the disc. When is someone going to do these things right? Does anyone know where I can find the single versions of "Lovesick Blues" and "Please"? I'll even take them in mono. Marty, I disagree with you, completely, about cleaning up the sound of recordings. I don't care what is done, as long as the final result is clean, clear sounding tracks, that are true to the sound of the 45's (and lp's). They don't have to be totally hiss-free, but as much as possible, without losing the original sound. One listen to the stuff coming out on Taragon and Eric indicates to me that it can be done. And sometimes from disc's. So, I'll always be looking forward to the releases that I know I can trust. |
|
Name: Dave From: Tucson Time: 2000-01-09 21:06:41 Comments: John, Frank Ifield's Lovesick Blues is in nice, clean stereo on The Best Of Frank Ifield, Disky DC886822. Most of Frank's hits are on this CD, but no Please. The disk is clean, appears to be from tapes, and the stereo is good on Call Her Your Sweetheart, I Remember You, Lovesick Blues and No One Will Ever Know. I got it a couple years ago from DiscCollector. Dave |
|
Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-10 00:22:19 Comments: Actually, Dave, according to music express.com, the disc you mention contains the alternate 2:17 version of "Lovesick Blues", instead of the 2:38 minute single version. The "Best of" cd that I already have contains that version. Thanks, anyway. |
|
Name: Dan Asvitt Website: From: California Time: 2000-01-10 00:50:42 Comments: Willie, I'm from the Bay Area and I remember "Snow Queen" by the Roger Nichols Trio very well. I heard it quite a bit on KYA or KEWB, or perhaps both. Good song. Dan |
|
Name: Doug
Peck From: Elk Grove, CA Time: 2000-01-10 11:51:40 Comments: "Snow Queen" by Roger Nichols was also aired in Southern California and scattered markets throughout the U.S. It was included in at least two of our syndicated formats until complaints from the conservative stations killed it. Apparently some folks interpreted the lyrics as being about something far from what they really are about (shades of "Puff the Magic Dragon" here??). It has been released on one, and possibly two Japanese CD's. One may still be in print (POCM-2065). Anyone interested can check with their favorite import supplier. Musicexpress.com lists it on their site. |
|
Name: dave mahan From: smyrna, georgia Time: 2000-01-10 12:08:45 Comments: to Mark Probst,post 243.please go to page 498 of the BSN NEWSLETTER and you will find a correction to my previous review of jerry fuller's cd containing the Ricky Nelson songs.Both songs are mono.You would think they would have been recorded in stereo somehwere at that time. |
|
Name: mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-10 13:23:04 Comments: Re :The Dave Clark Five. Yes, the 2 Cd set of "The History of The DC5" is out of print, because Hollywood Records no longer has the license to issue any DC5 product. This was a 5 year license and expired in mid 1999. there was alot of friction between Dave Clark and Hollywood, they could not agree on how to market the DC5 catalouge, which was SUPPOSED to ALL be issued on Hollywood in the Cd format. Dave Clark wanted Box Sets that sell for high $$, Hollywood wanted two-fers at a midline price. So we got only the 50 track greatest hits Cd, which isnt bad, but isnt great either. As for the "Bits and Pieces" Cd, that and ALL other DC5 Cds EXCEPT "The DC5 and The Washington Dcs" on Ember are bootlegs. The Bits and Pieces CD does have the hits in true stereo (except Over and Over, 19 Days and Reeling and Rocking, which are all mono) , but has crappy sonics and was ALL dubbed from noisy vinyl. They also faded into most tracks to hide the groove noise, which annoys me no end!! Dave had been, in mid-99 , talking to some other label about reissuing the DC5 material, but nothing came of it. The Christmas season would have been the perfect time from a marketing standpoint, but, from the info I got from someone at Holywood, DC is very hard to deal with and makes unreasonable demands of the label. This is a shame, because the DC5 LPs have a TON of great songs. There is enough really good material to do ANOTHER 50 track box, which is what I believe Dave wanted to do, calling it "More Of The Five". The record buying public, however seems to prefer the actual LPs reissued in their original form. I know I would. I'm in "Bits and Pieces" over this thing. I hope that this gets resolved, so I can be "Glad All Over Again" in 2000. Hope this helps, Mikey |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-10 13:57:07 Comments: Dave Clark has always been his own man when it comes to business (a jerk!), but maybe he's been taking Allen Klein lessons! |
|
Name: John
Rubin From: Tulsa, Ok. Time: 2000-01-10 15:46:08 Comments: I am trying to find the address and/or phone number of Relic Recors, a N.J. based reissue label |
|
Name: Martin
Nathan Referred by: Yahoo! From: Worcester, Mass. Time: 2000-01-11 01:27:07 Comments: I have read some comments about the "Hey Look What I Found Series". Apparently people don't like the sound quality. I don't listen to the disks on my home stereo, I just listen to it on tapes I make for my car. What you think of the songs on this set of 9 disks depends on your musical tastes. If you are looking for rock classics, this is the wrong set for you. If you hate pop, don't go anywhere near these disks. But if you love some of the most great obscure low charting hits, you've come to the right place. The best way to listen to these disks is to put all 9 disks into your disk player, and set it to random. Make sure to make a tape, and listen to it later. Some really strange tunes- some really good sounding songs from performers you normally wouldn't listen to. Zero-Zero by Lawrence Welk. Quite an infectious tune by somebody not known for infectious tunes. Milk and Honey by Eddie Fisher. The Lone Teen Ranger-Paul Landis. It's A Gas-Alfred E. Neumann. Tick Tock-Richie Cordell. Love Means-Sounds Of Sunshine. Smoke Gets In You Eyes-Blue Haze. Make Believe- Wind. The list goes on and on. These are love 'em or hate 'em songs. I wish this series would put out about 20 volumes, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's all done. If it does go on, I would like to see it focus on the late 60's to early 80's Here's a list for you: MY Idea-Creme Caramel Goodnight Baby-Kingtones Mr. Balloon Man-Ray Hildebrand. One Day Of Your Life-Alex Keenan But For Love-Jerry Naylor Day By Day-Holly Sherwood Easy to Bad-Ranji One Word-Austin Roberts Costafine Town-Splinter Summer Prayer For Peace-Archies We Can't Hide It Anymore-Larry Santos Dance And Shake Your Tambourine-Universal Robot Band They Don't Make 'Em Like That Anymore-Reunion Don'Hold Back-Chanson Hot Summer Nights-Night Just So Lonely-Get Wet Midnight Blue-Louise Tucker________ Martin Nathan |
|
Name: Jay
Connors From: Greater New York Metro Time: 2000-01-11 02:13:28 Comments: Martin, Quite enjoyed your post! Why, because I agree with you. That series is not about sound quality, it's about remembering songs that have long been buried in the rubble of radio. Songs that don't "test" well never get played, and most of the Hey Look grouping will never see (hear) the light of day on any radio station I can think of. A shame, really. Like you, I dub the three volumes of this series I have off and listen to it in the car. While I was waiting for lunch to be prepared at a local eatery (take out) I was listening to it in my car, and suprisingly some of the selections (Ray Peterson, I could have loved you so well) sounded fine. Mark Dinning's All of this for Sally made me chuckle, and Life Guards Everybody Out of the Pool had me tapping my foot while driving (I don't know how one does that, but I did it!) and having a good old time driving back to work with my hot lunch. It's all about perspective. Do they sound great? No. Do they get the job done? I think so. I for one intend to buy more of the series (only have three discs of it so far) because far and away I enjoy hearing Scarlett Ohara by Lawrence Welk, and Richard Chamberlain singing Blue Guitar. Got a Match, and Greyhound are great instrumentals. Tracy Dey's Gonna Get Along Without You Now is so cheesy I love it. Patience and Prudence must have been shocked when they heard their song covered! Many people reading this will think I'm a fruitcake for admitting that I enjoy this junk, but I don't really care. I also enjoy Faure, Greig, and Vaughn Williams. Bud Powell, Duke Ellington and Count Basie reside prominantly within my cd collection. No, I don't have Spice Girls, but hey, if you like them, enjoy! |
|
Name: Dean
Zemaitaitis From: Calgary Canada Time: 2000-01-11 02:17:08 Comments: I'm trying to find someone who might have stereo copies of two songs that I think were issued in 1959 and 1960 on stereo 45's. One was "Cradle of love" by Johnny Preston and the other was "Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye" by Kathy Linden though I am less sure about the Linden being true stereo as opposed to rechanneled. These two Stereo 45's seem quit ellusive but I would love to hear them in stereo if possible. Does anyone know of any other stereo 45's that were in true stereo when issued but have not turned up since their initial issue? Also if I missed anybody when I sent out the stereo MP3's of "Woman" & " Witch Doctor", drop me a E-mail and I will get them out to you. I was a little overwhelmed with the requests for these songs and might have missed a couple of people. |
|
Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-11 11:36:40 Comments: I enjoyed reading about the "Hey Look What I Found" series. These are my favorite type of series, because they dont have the same old stuff, like "My Boyfriends Back" on 'em. A similar series was the "Jukebox Treasures" series, supposedly from Israel (yea right, I'll bet it was Huntington, Long Island!!) So, who knows who has the cheapest price on the "Look What I Found" series?? Anybody? Collectors choice wants like 20.00 each. Someone must have a better price than that. Mikey |
|
Name: Ralph
Curcio Website: From: N.J. Time: 2000-01-11 12:19:33 Comments: Along with "Hey Look What I Found," another good source for obscure 45s on CD is the "Mr. Maestro" series. This concentrates on '50s and early '60s doo wop, with rarities like "Kingdom of Love" by The Preludes, "White Cliffs of Dover" by The Robins, "Lovely Dee" by The Untouchables and the original (pre-Gentrys) version of "Keep on Dancing" by The Avantis. Plus, there are some great stereo rarities that I don't think have surfaced elsewhere on CD, including "You've Got What it Takes" by Marv Johnson, "Souvenirs of Summer" by The Rays, Frankie Ford's cover of "You Talk Too Much" and "Each Night" by Rochelle and the Candles. Sound quality leaves something to be desired at times, but the stereo cuts sound quite good. For just enjoying the music of simpler times (remember that pleasure?), it's a fun listen. |
|
Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-11 13:58:22 Comments: Sorry, Dean, but you can cross "Cradle Of Love" off your wants list. I have it, or had it, at one time, and it is not stereo. The label says it's stereo, but it's not. Sounds mono to me, or slightly rechanneled. I don't know about "Goodbye Jimmy, Goodbye". |
|
Name: Charles G.
Hill Website: The Web Site Formerly Known As Chez Chaz From: Dustbury, Oklahoma Time: 2000-01-11 16:22:26 Comments: Continental Records of Ontario (www.gocontinental.com) was selling the Mavis "Look What I Found!" discs at $20 Canadian or $14 US, plus shipping, last I looked. |
|
Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-11 19:31:30 Comments: Watch that talk about My Boyfriend's Back, Mikey, or you too might get an email telling you how important it was to issue that song yet again on CD. (I've got an even dozen of 'em now.) To Luke: your question about the Kinks in Stereo got me to thinking, so I started hunting for the Rhino in various places on the net. Turns out the Rhino is OOP, but MoFi did a two-fer back in '96 that's still available from at least a couple of mail order places that aren't that well known. I'm toying with buying this one before it disappears, but would like to know if anyone here has the CD. How 'bout it Dave? Marv Johnson's Move Two Mountains sounds like it's in Stereo on the EMI Lost Hits Of The Sixties (19552), but I have not checked the CD lately. All my other Marv Johnson stuff is mono according to my database. I kinda think that using noise reduction in mastering to CD is like putting a strip of gauze in front of your TV while you're watching it. |
|
Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-11 19:59:41 Comments: I have to agree with the Ralph Curcio's assessment of the Mr. Maestro series. Items turn up on those CDs that never turn up on any of the other reissue labels, with occasional stereo rarities. The Mavis label isn't always hot for stereo, though. Two tracks I wanted in stereo, "Just Once More" by Rita Pavone (RCA flip side of "Remember Me," which was the "A" side in Boston) and "Hey, Look Me Over" by The Pete King Chorale (originally on Kapp) are both mono. Does anyone know of stereo CD issues on these two tracks? How about Marilyn Maye's RCA recording of "Step to the Rear?" Lots of people remember the record, but it never charted! The single was mid-60s, and the label had Nipper on the left side. |
|
Name: Jay
Connors From: New York Metro Time: 2000-01-11 20:26:27 Comments: Tom, Yes I remember Step to the Rear, but not as a single. Marylyn Maye had an album of big band/show tunes kind of material about 1967 on RCA. There is where you will find a stereo recording of this tune, if you can. The mid sixties produced a plethora of great easy listening tunes with supurb arrangements and excellent vocals, especially group (choral) recordings, and orchestral recordings of pop tunes. Columbia, A & M, and Capital must have an enormous amount of great stuff in their vaults. I loved a Stu Phillips lp on ColPix that had some of the most beautiful music I have ever heard. Lush, orchestral arrangements with vocal over tones ala Percy Faith of pop tunes of the time. Late night listening Supremeo! Remember the Hollyridge Strings and their easy listening versions of among others the Beatles? I believe there are many people like myself who would purchase music like this if reissues of whole lps were put out. How much could it cost to do? Peanuts, I would think. Efforts to accomplish the same thing in today's recording studios and with today's "sound" that I have heard just don't cut it. Too much synthesizer effect (cheesy in a way that doesn't work)! |
|
Name: Marty
Natchez From: The Great Lakes Time: 2000-01-11 21:24:33 Comments: The full contents of Rita Pavone's U.S. RCA album is found on her Bear Family CD "Wennichein Junge War" (BCD 15585), which includes "Just Once More" and a number of her German-sung hits. Top quality, too. |
|
Name: Willie From: San Francisco Time: 2000-01-12 00:08:17 Comments: To :Steve Baird - Re: The Kinks You Really Got Me and Kinda Kinks on Mo-Fi--The first album is great stereo (except for the hit single You Really Got Me.) The second album on the disc, Kinda Kinks is all mono, which is decent quality but it is a big letdown when the stereo ends after track 14 and the mono starts on track 15. I think the disc is worth getting just for the wonderful 1st lp in stereo. The "You really got me" single track has some wierd echo that I've never noticed before. |
|
Name: John
Preston From: Arlington, Texas Time: 2000-01-12 02:01:41 Comments: I, too, like the Mavis discs, for the same reason that most of you do...They give us tracks that no one else would bother with, so most of us would die, waiting for them to come out on cd. They don't sound great, but they'll do, until better versions are released. I have all of them, and several other discs like them, and I'll buy more, if they are released. In fact, I wish I knew how to contact them, so that I could send in my wants lists. Wouldn't it be great if there was a place that would search, find, and record our wants lists onto cds for us? I would pay a good price for such a service. |
|
Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-12 06:37:34 Comments: To Jay (and others): Regarding "easy listening" music and other genres, I've stated for years that "there is good and bad in all genres of music. Nothing is any good unless the listener likes it. That's the beauty of any art form - it's subjective, however popularity has nothing whatsoever to do with quality." I always cite "Disco Duck" as an example of this. As music it's junk, but it was a #1 record! On the other hand, Tiny Tim's Reprise LP God Bless Tiny Tim, was a beautifully orchestrated (Gordon Jenkins), well-produced (Richard Perry), tongue-in-cheek album that wasn't meant to take itself seriously. I have many "beautiful music" albums in my library by Percy Faith, Mantovani, The Melachrino Strings, just as I have Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, and Jimi Hendrix. I also have Frank Sinatra, Nat "King" Cole, Doris Day and Keely Smith (sans Louis Prima). These artists have been recognized as being tops in their respective genres, and I appreciate their artistry. You couldn't give me a Perry Como or John Gary album, but there are collectors and music fans out there who like their styles and have their albums in their libraries. My point here is that while musical tastes differ between collectors, we all have one thing in common, and that's the desire to obtain the best sources of our likes that we can find. None of us should ever feel embarrased about discussing music we've collected or that which we want to own. |
|
Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism From: Bemidji, Minnesota Time: 2000-01-12 08:35:40 Comments: Tom, I agree. We all have our own likes and dislikes and all art forms are suggestive which as you said means that nothing is good unless one does like it. I have lots of music in my collection that I am not a fan of, but have taken the recordings anyway due to the fact that the price was right. |
|
Name: steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-12 09:02:16 Comments: Great post, Tom! Regarding Disco Duck, I've got a little story that some might find amusing: Just at the time that the song was a hit, I had traveled to a college in Tennessee to visit with a guy who was writing a book. I had a 10:00 AM appointment with him. I awoke a bit early that morning, and could not get back to sleep. So, groggy and a bit testy from getting less than 4 hours sleep, I got up, and went out to find a restaurant near the campus to have breakfast. It was about 5:00 AM when I found one. It was deserted when I entered. I sat in a booth and was reading the morning paper when two teenaged girls came in and sat down at a table. A few minutes later, one of them headed for the jukebox. She put quarter after quarter into it. Seconds later, Disco Duck blared out of the box. "Oh, please," I thought to myself. My breakfast arrived just as the song ended -- only to play again and again and again. Then the juke box stopped playing, so the young lady went back to it and put 8 more quarters in it so that they could hear, you guessed it, Disco Duck some more. Instead of finishing my breakfast, I got up and left. I can't tell you if it was mono or stereo. |
|
Name: Dave
Daugherty From: Dublin, Ohio Time: 2000-01-12 09:14:21 Comments: Re: Steve Baird - Sorry, don't have that MO FI Kinks title, although I wish I did. I do however, have Mobile Fidelity's re-issue of Rick Dees Greatest Hit. There's only one track, but it's in glorious stereo. Put your CD player on repeat....no quarters necessary. Can I make you a copy? |
|
Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-01-12 09:53:52 Comments: Kinks - I'm looking at CDNow right now. They've got it (MoFi twofer) for $18.18 but it's on backorder. I'd say it's probably worth a shot though if you are looking for it... |
|
Name: Jay
Connors From: Greater New York Metro Time: 2000-01-12 10:30:45 Comments: Isn't today's CD technology wonderful! We can slip a couple of Mavis "Hey Look" recordings, an Eric "Hard to Find" disc, a Varese "Discoveries" disc, and a "Mr. Maestro" into our five disc player, hit shuffle, and presto! There you have a five hour "radio" program, with no commercials, no interruptions, wonderful variety, and depending on your reception area, better than radio sound. I have done this many times, had to go out, just left it playing, came back an hour later, and it's like the Energizer bunny, it keeps going and going. It is truly a luxury to be able to slip a Bobby Rydell disc in next to a Best of Motown, next to Best of Girl Groups, next to the Col Pix Demension story, next to Nippers Greatest Hits. One disc among the five can be the "spotlight artist of the day" be it Frankie Avalon, Rick Nelson, Elvis, or Buddy Holly. The rest are comps. Excellent personalized programming, and wonderful for entertaining! This is sometimes the overlooked value of compact disc technology. |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-12 12:51:07 Comments: Disco Duck is a novelty record! It wasn't meant to be serious. I enjoy hearing it every now and then, but I can only take so much. BTW, by 1976, when Disco Duck came out, most recoedings were cdertainly stereo. I have walked out of stores because they put on modern country music or reggae/rap. I find the stuff irritating. |
|
Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: Gillette, NJ Time: 2000-01-12 12:56:38 Comments: Okay people, we've got a mystery on our hands!! I just got from Dean my MP3 copy of the stereo "Woman" by Peter & Gordon, and I was anxious to hear it. I was deeply involved with Ron Furmanek and the cancelled Peter & Gordon Collector's Series CD back in 1991, and I've had a (crappy) cassette dub of the final master since then. I was advising Ron on things technical, and assisted in a process that would have presented the early P&G 2-track material in a different, more coherent mix. (This process was also used on the Hollies 30th Anniversary package that did get released.) I was curious to hear how good this copy was, and was I shocked. THIS IS NOT RON FURMANEK'S MIX!! I don't know WHERE this came from, but, people, believe me, this ain't what Ron did! For one, the type and amount of reverb is very close to the original mono mix. (Ron and I had great arguments about his mixes around that point. I always was telling him his mixes were too dry and didn't have enough compression/limiting. he also refused to listen to the original records themselves, preferring to reference the mono master tapes for his stereo remixes only.) Also, the image is mixed very 60's-ish, meaning rhythm track on one side, overdubs and strings/horns on the other, and vocals dead center. This was a 4 track master that had vocals on one track, bass, drums, electric rhythm guitar on one track, strings/horns, one track, and percussion, lead guitar, piano and double tracked vocal sections on the last track, so Ron mixed it rhythm & vocals center, string/horns on the left, and the overdub track on the right (except for the doubled vocals which were panned closer to the center.) Much more coherent. If he just added some more analog (plate) reverb on it, and just compressed it a smidgen, it would have been perfect. So this becomes: who did this mix, and when? It wasn't mixed to stereo in 1966, and forgotten on a shelf. There was NO evidence of even an attempt to mix to stereo according to all available documentation, so this must be a new attempt by somebody else. Homework assignment: Find out more abouth this mix! |
|
Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-12 15:25:40 Comments: Re: "Woman". Now THATS interesting...I wonder who did THAT mix? Maybe it was mixed to stereo in the 70's sometime, for a P&G Greatest hits that was shelved, or something like that. Or maybe it was just one of the engineers goofing around at Abbey Road. There are Beatles mixes like that , that have no documentation, that the engineers did sort of on the fly. In reference to Chips observation that it was a very "60ish" mix, that may point to it having been done in the late '60s or early '70s. Personally, I never did understand engineers remixing '60s material to sound more contemporary. If its 60's stuff, mix it the way it would have been mixed in 1966!! Thats the only way its going to sound "right" to peoples ears. I never had a problem with backing tracks on the left, strings/overdubs on the right and the vocals in the center. I think thats the way period stuff SHOULD sound. Listen to The CBS Velvets Cd "Tonite...May Be The Night", for example. It sounds wonderful. Just my two cents. Note to Chris : Have all the Multitrack tapes for the Monkees fist LP been recovered by RCA? That is one Cd that needs to be remixed, BADLY. I'm sure its only 4 track, since it was 1966, but at least with the tools available today, they could do a lot better than the crappy Cd thats been issued. The 1980's Arista CD is horrible...the Rhino remaster not so bad, but Gerry McGee's lead guitar still sounds puny and screetchy on both releases. Any info on this one would be appreciated. Mikey |
|
Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-12 15:46:28 Comments: Re: The Dave Clark Five Since I've gotten several emails regarding this, I'll post here and try to answer your questions on the stereo DC5 tracks. 1) The stereo versions of the DC5 hits were NOT available in stereo, and were not even mixed to stereo during their heydey. Dave Clark mixed the 3 and 4 track masters to mono only for release. In 1971, Columbias (the English label, not the American) 10 year contract with Dave for the DC5 material was coming to an end, so while they still had possession of the masters, they mixed the hits into stereo for the 1971 "The Dave Clark Five" Lp . Thats still the best DC5 stereo LP around. These are the only stereo mixes of the hits ever done. They are the same mixes EMI licensed in 1976 for the "15 World Million Sellers" LP. The 1976 EPIC LP "Glad All Over Again" was all mono. (I still have this LP, and the EMI, by the way). The first TRUE stereo DC5 LP issued was "Everybody Knows" (yes, a different song than the 1964 hit) in 1968. Also issued in stereo then was the "5 X 5" LP, with the chart hits "19 Days" and "Ive Got To Have a Reason" in stereo. Finding those two LPs in stereo is really difficult, but they are out there. I've also been informed that there is a Euro boot Cd of the "Coast to Coast" and "American Tour" LPs. I imagine that these are of the same crappy quality of all the other Euro boots.....the EPIC pressings were so over modulated and pressed on kiddie proof cheap vinyl that even clean transfers dont sound all that good. Hopefully, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Dave will make a deal to issue the LPs in the Cd format from the original tapes. Mikey, your local DC5 and Ventures stereo maniac!! |
|
Name: David
Clark From: Ottawa Time: 2000-01-12 16:22:37 Comments: Hi everyone...been a while for me. As for the Peter & Gordon track, I too think that stereo mix floating around has that real sixties feel. I much prefer it to the rechanneled version (as I'm sure we all do!). I join in the "wondering who did it crowd". My copy is missing the last couple of seconds however. Is everyone else's? If there's a non-truncated version around, I'd love it! Please let me know! As for DC5, I have a copy of that true stereo 5 X 5 LP on Epic, as well as that famous 1971 LP. "19 Days" appears in a different mix on 5X5 than that was done in 1971 (which to me makes the latter a remix). |
|
Name: Joe
Strigle From: Burbank Time: 2000-01-12 22:52:11 Comments: Just a couple of quickies ... To Steve Baird: I repectfully disagree with your assessment that "using noise reduction in mastering to CD is like putting a strip of gauze in front of your TV while you're watching it." I believe it's more like adjusting your color, brightness and contrast controls for maximum viewing pleasure. Of course, one can always boost the color too much... Oh yeah, Steve, that Marv Johnson "Move Two Mountains" track is stereo, but balanced badly. The lead vocals are far left and mixed low, and are overwhelmed by the background vocals which are far right and mixed hot ... which segues nicely to Mike's comment: "Personally, I never did understand engineers remixing '60s material to sound more contemporary. If its 60's stuff, mix it the way it would have been mixed in 1966!! Thats the only way its going to sound "right" to peoples ears." Again, I disagree. As has been mentioned before in these posts, the stereo mix was often an afterthought. Now is the time to mix them "right" -- that is, with the care now, that should've been taken then. |
|
Name: Alan Time: 2000-01-12 23:04:10 Comments: This stereo chat board must have a small, well-connected group of people. Ok, I own the Dave Clark 5 (US EG 30434) and the Best of (UK Regal Starline 5037), and have been told the US copies of 5 By 5 (Epic BN 26236), Got What It Takes (Epic BN 26312) and Everyone Knows (Epic BN 263534) are true stereo LP’s. Does any body know the stereo content of other DC Five LPs such as If Somebody Loves You (UK Columbia SCX 6437), Play That Good Old Rock & Roll (UK Regal Starline 5090) and Dave Clark and Friends (UK Columbia 6494) or a A Session With DC5 (UK MFP 1260)? According to interviews with Dave Clark, he originally leased the music to EMI for a period of three years, and then he re-licensed every year in accordance with the top royalty rate anyone on the label was getting paid. He has also stated that he regretted mixing the songs into stereo in the early & 70’s because he felt they lost their punch. The stereo versions, in my opinion are much more dynamic than the squashed mono versions. The copy I have of Dave Clark 5 (US EG 30434) is a dynaflex and suffers in that respect, the UK pressings/mastering are much better. Any information would be appreciated. |
|
Name: Jay
Connors Time: 2000-01-13 00:52:44 Comments: There is an album favorite of mine which I believe would be a wonderful reissue or "twofer". Doris Day recorded an LP entitled "Latin for Lovers". Lots of soft bossanova songs with quiet and exquisite arrangements, quite well recorded. The way her voice blended with the high quality material and backing produced what I believe is truly a "collectors item". A musical gem which is ready to be unearthed again on CD. Does anyone feel Sony would reissue this album? Ms. Day has lots of her material released on CD, but I have never seen this or any of the songs on it, combined on any compact disc. To me, this is the high point of her musical career so far as artistry goes. Would a label such as Taragon or Varese be inclined to entertain the thought of a reissue such as this? Does Sony release material like this for license arrangment? I notice Collectables is doing vintage material from major labels in two-fer or expanded form, music from the pre-rock era, or easy listening from the fifties and sixties. |
|
Name: Marty
Wekser From: Los Angeles Time: 2000-01-13 02:26:49 Comments: To Jay Connors - the Doris Day LP "Latin For Lovers" is available from Sony UK as part of a two-fer. The other LP is called "Love Him" . The catalog number is 481018 2 and you can probably order it from any CD online company. Or, if you prefer, you may send three First Class airline tickets and a cashier's check to cover one week's accommodations at the Savoy Hotel in London for Steve Massie, Dave Daugherty and myself (please also include a liberal per diem for food, entertaining, theater tickets, etc.) and we'll be glad to bring you back a Doris Day CD... GRATIS!! If you don't want to order an import, you may want to wait. I think it's coming out on Mr. Maestro but I'm not sure how good the sound will be! |
|
Name: Bill
Knoble From: Dallas Time: 2000-01-13 04:16:53 Comments: ACCESSING ARCHIVES: I just realized I have a problem in accessing all 5 Archive links. I can actually access each link, but, the COMPLETE page doesn't display, giving me only about the 1st month of posts. When I get to the bottom of the page, there's a message saying: "This page is too big to load completely". Since I don't have a computer, I use WebTV to access the Internet. I figured it was a WebTV browser problem (and still do), however, a friend of mine and I used her Mac with AOL and still had problems. While we didn't get the "Page Too Big... message, we were constantly being automatically logged-off the Internet after only about 1/3 of the page was displayed. This happened 4 times in a row. Now, this could have been an Mac/AOL bug, but, it's ironic to have had problems with 2 different systems. WebTV Customer Service has been of NO help whatsoever, so I plead my case to you. Could some of you (especially WebTV users) e-mail me (by clicking on my name above), if you have had any Archive accessing problems. Thanks for your input. |
|
Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: Gillette, New Jersey Time: 2000-01-13 10:18:58 Comments: For Alan, here's the DC5 info you requested: "If Somebody Loves You", "Play That Good Old Rock & Roll", and the "Dave Clark & Friends" LP's are 100% true stereo (Including the 1965 "Reeling & Rocking" track on "Play That Good Old Rock & Roll") "Session..." is a straight mono reissue of that early '64 Columbia (UK) LP. I too find Dave's stereo remixes much better than their mono counterparts (With the exception of "Bits & Pieces" and "Can't You See That She's Mine", which are missing overdubs heard in the mono mixes.) Hope this helps. |
|
Name: Jay
Connors Time: 2000-01-13 10:22:01 Comments: Marty, Three first class tickets on a new outfit called "Seat of Your Pants Airline and Storm Door Co."(SYPASD Air) are on the way, along with an internet voucher good to cash at any Bulgaria Federal Savings and Loan (with three branches world wide, the closest to you being in Oakland.) I included several excess coupons I had been saving for discounts on "Happy Meals" at McDonalds Greenwich Village location, which I'm told will be accepted at the Picadilly Circus Wimpys in London. You really surprised me with this information, as I thought all the great sounding reissues were coming out on Mavis these days. Bon Voyage ala Janice Harper. Oh, and yes, flight insurance valued at one hundred dollars per person if the plane crashes was gratis. Who says all the up and coming businesses are high tech? |
|
Name: mike
arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-13 11:52:34 Comments: Re:DC5 Chip.....what overdubs of "Cant You See" and "Bits and Pieces" are you referring to?? There are two versions of "Cant You See" floating around, One has drum fills every bar, the other has none. But Im not aware of any overdubs missing. On Bits and Pieces, there is a possibility that they added more "foot stomps" to the mono for single release. I'll have to go home tonite and listen. Is that what you meant? I'm sort of a DC5 maniac, and need to explore these things!! ---Mikey |
|
Name: Chuck
Iverson From: San Fran. bay area Time: 2000-01-13 12:36:15 Comments: In case the Sam Cooke disc gets deleted, you can find "Another Saturday Night" in stereo [great mix] on Session's Presents 62 Golden Greats [RCA spec prod] DVL2-0266-2 on record side C. Why could spec. prod find but real RCA couldn't? DC5 best so farEMI RegalSRS-5037, what a find! |
|
Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: Gillette, New Jersey Time: 2000-01-13 13:20:52 Comments: Mikey: There are NOT 2 versions of "Can't You See that She's Mine" - Those drum fills, and couple of extra vocals are overdubs to the basic track (which was used to generate the stereo mix). The "bare" mix was issued on LP here in the States, while the "drum fill" version was used on the US single. I'm not sure about original overseas releases, though. (All LP compilations in America used the "bare" version) "Bits & Pieces" in stereo is not only missing the "footstomps", it's missing extra cymbal crashes, tambourine stings, handclaps, and a doubled drum track (Something Dave was very fond of doing.) [I'm a drummer,can't help it...] |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-13 14:00:42 Comments: I'm glad I bought my copy of "Sam Cook's Greatest Hits" that came out two years ago when it came out before they pulled the track,"Another Saturday Night" on it. I prefer to hear the DC5 tracks as originally mixed by Dave Clark, mono. They may not all sound so great, but that's the way it was... On some sources, it is possible, with the right software and a skilled engineer, it is possible to reduce noise on a song without any perceptable degredation in sound. I do it all the time. later |
|
Name: Alan From: Phoenix Time: 2000-01-13 14:38:36 Comments: I have had a problem with discs manufactured by PDO France. They have small pinholes that become larger over time making the disc unreadable. I am amazed that there is not discussion about this manufacturer of compact discs. They made allot of discs for smaller UK labels such as New Rose, Bam Caruso and Charley in the early days of compact disc. My best of the Doors, PDO was the manufacturer the first remastered edition, is rotted beyond being playable. There was a Left Banke CD, which had the original mixes on Bam Caruso, that I was able to copy and manually remove the damaged digital sections with the digital sound editor and transfer them to a CD-R. If you have any discs that are made by this manufacture, hold them up to the light too see how much damage has accrued. They can have either many small pinholes are large sections of the metal film missing, much like the MCA Discovision laserdiscs. Copying these discs is the only way of saving your investment. |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-13 14:51:31 Comments: Alan, I don't know what kind of experience you're having with pinholes, but this is an old story that was put to rest in the early 90's. Assuming proper storage of CD's, pinholes do not degrade the sound quality or render Cd's unplayable. I have tons of CD's with pinholes from fifteen years ago, and every one of them playback perfectly. Perhaps this plant is churning out substandard discs, or your player is acting up with Cd's made from that manufacturer. A laser either from a CD player or burner cannot "rot" any disc. |
|
Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-01-13 15:40:12 Comments: I have never heard of problems with French PDO discs, but I know a lot of discs from the UK PDO plant have gone bad over the years - in particular a couple of Who CDs. I recently tried to copy one and my CD-R drive had a *very* hard time reading it. As for DC5 - the second I saw "I want to hear the mono mixes" I thought "must be beetle" - I'm getting good at this...;-) |
|
Name: Mike
Arcidiacono Time: 2000-01-13 23:44:05 Comments: Re: DC5.....Chip is right!! Went home and listen to "Cant You See" and Bits & Pieces", A/B'd the stereo and mono vesions back to back. The mono "Bits and Pieces" def had added handclaps, tamborine and footstomps...not so sure about a doubled drum track tho....I think they just poured more plate reverb on the existing one.(Chip...I'm a drummer also by the way...26 years!!) On "Cant You See", Chip is also correct. The single version is the "bare drum" version with Dave adding fills "over the top", and Mike Smith adding some vocal parts. Chip.....youre a good detective! Hey, anything up with The Monkees? Mikey |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-13 23:54:23 Comments: Hey! I'm a drummer too, for 27 years, now. This is another example of my position with the stereo/mono thing. You just can't get some things in stereo the way the singles sounded. And, as long as Dave Clark is alive, don't expect him to ever remix those tapes into stereo that matches the mono mixes, if it's even possible. If it were, he probably would have done so the first time, back in the seventies. |
|
Name: Jesus Website: From: San Juan, PR Time: 2000-01-14 01:27:29 Comments: mmm... does air drumming count? ;) Alan: heat and humidity accelerate the pinholing (I know, i live in the tropics) some of my oldests CD's (17 yo) have them now and some skip in places on puter CD drives ('home' players seem to handle them better) So as beetle said, good storage conditions are the main thing. Better keep those CD's in cold dry air-conditioned rooms and make a CD-R backup of any suspect disc. Best would be to keep them in Nitrogen (inert gas) filled cold controlled containers but CD-R's are cheaper than that and more convinient ;) Ain't technology grand? I agree with beetle on the stereo/mono sounding different. The ONLY way a stereo tape would sound exactly like a mono tape would be if it was a hard left hard right 2 track master used to make the mono mix, and no reverb was used. Any other would have slight level shifting and phase cancellations among the diferent components when mixed to mono and/or stereo. (And even if they used the same EXACT kind of reverb as for the mono one, the mono tape's reverb and music have to come from the "center", while on the stereo the reverb would be either coming from the "center" while the music came left and right, or the separate reverbs from each channel's instruments would be coming from their respective's l-r positions, and even in that simple case it would sound different in feel and ambiance. As you add tracks and effects the differences get greater exponentially. Too bad that both versions aren't always available... |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-14 04:47:59 Comments: Uh, Jesus, now they're gonna remind us of all those great Bob Irwin/Vic Anesini stereo remixes. |
|
Name: Steve
Baird From: Baton Rouge Time: 2000-01-14 08:16:02 Comments: RE the MoFi Kinks. Luke, obviously the "out of stock" notice at the CD site you mentioned in your post (forget which one it was) means that your order for it will simply reside in their computer for 30 days, and then be expunged, since there is NO distribution for their products in place. BUT, after much searching, last nite I actually found 2 sites that CLAIM to have it in stock, so I ordered a copy from each of them. Their prices were $23.88 and $19.99. It's too soon to know whether EITHER one of them will really have a copy to send out, but if they both do have it, I will have an unneeded copy available for anyone here who wants it. email me if you are interested. |
|
Name: Luke
Pacholski Website: LukPac.org/ From: Racine, WI Time: 2000-01-14 09:26:26 Comments: Steve, re: I'm not exactly sure how CDNow works, but it's possible one of their distributer's warehouses has it. Who knows - the worst that can happen is the disc doesn't come. Beetle - thanks for the reminder on the Bob Irwin remixes! That's where it's at! Now if he'd only get those Simon & Garfunkel albums done... |
|
Name: Chip
Cristarella Referred by: Yahoo! From: Gillette, NJ Time: 2000-01-14 09:57:58 Comments: Beetle: DC5, all evidence suggests that those percussive/vocal overdubs were added to the mono master, and don't exist on any multi-track tape. Hence, their non-appearence on DC's stereo remixes. I heard years ago a Mike Smith interview where he mentioned that several DC5 songs were gone back to after the initial final mixing to be "punched up". He mentioned specifically "Bits & Peices", because he claimed it was his idea to add the pounding, etc. Mikey: The Monkees are low priority at Rhino right now, unfortunately. I too, would love to see a proper remix of the first 2 LP's, but keep this in mind: In a "Hit Parader" magazine from '67, Boyce & Hart were interviewed, and discussed at length how the "thin, pancake like" sound of the 1st Lp was intentional. So I have reservations that the instrumental multi-tracks would have more body and depth than what we're hearing now. |
|
Name: Lex Bloom,
Ahead To Stereo From: Boston Time: 2000-01-14 19:20:14 Comments: Friends and stereophiles, now we're getting into some amusing territory: PDO discs. Up until, say, 1994, discs mfd by PDO in either West Germany or Tennessee (at least, I'm told that's where it was) was silver from the outer edge all the way to the hole. I didn't exactly care for that, in that fingerprints are easily visible on a silver surface. And yes, PDO discs back then were pinhole city - even brand new. Thank goodness they've improved from that point on. But I've never heard of pinholes popping up over time. I've had no problem with England's PDO discs, but I have none from France. |
|
Name: Tom Daly Website: Skyline Mastering From: Metro Boston Time: 2000-01-14 19:45:45 Comments: Regarding PDO discs from West Germany, I've had a few turn completely transparent in some places, like the silver has totally oxidized! Many of these were on Verve, but some were Mercury and others were Polydor. One was on WB, the "Twin Peaks" soundtrack. Go figure... |
|
Name: Andrew Website: Referred by: AOL From: Atlanta metro area Time: 2000-01-15 08:08:15 Comments: OK, here's a question for the experts out there. Has anyone ever seen a reissue of the following minor chart single: in late 1975 a Boston-based group called the Road Apples reached #35 with their song "Let's Live Together" (Polydor 14285). Was this ever on a LP, much less CD? Thanks for any info. |
|
Name: Martin
Nathan Referred by: Yahoo! From: Worcester,MA Time: 2000-01-15 12:36:39 Comments: Let's Live Together by the Road Apples is another of those long forgotten 70's hits. 70's music is probably the most unfairly maligned decade ever for music. It's certainly better than the 90's stuff. As for LLT, it don't think it's ever come out on CD, but I suppose if songs like MovieStar by Harpo are out on CD, anything can be. I once read somewhere that the RA's were actually from Worcester, but I don't remember them. I remember The Joneses, Mad Angel, Zonkaraz, Joanne Barnard,etc. Martin Nathan |
|
Name: beetlefan Time: 2000-01-15 18:57:18 Comments: Seventies music is maligned from all sides! Older people don't like it and twentysomethings and teens don't like it. What gives? There are a lot of people who think it was all disco. Not true! In fact, disco, while present throughout the seventies, only enjoyed mass popularity for a good two and a half years 1978-1980. If many people would open their minds and ears, they would hear tons of great music created during the seventies decade. My personal gripe is that there isn't much late seventies and early eighties soul and R&B on CD. You'd be surprised how many LP's and singles from this period that i've transferred to CD. beetlefan |
|
Name: Bradley Olson Website: Bradley Olson--A Person With Autism |